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  1.     
    #11
    Senior Member

    "The higher man"

    Quote Originally Posted by Peruvian Devil
    Some people here, I think, have taken the term of a higher man and turned it into a holy man. The higher man, at least the one I'm talking about, is beyond good and evil, a higher man is just an individual who has broken away from the group consciousness and can see past the control, manipulation and nonsense. This allows this individual to either, do nothing, alert others of the manipulation or choose to manipulate them himself/herself.
    Of course then this would mean that there are different levels of a higher state, with the lowest being that of the one who does nothing, the level in which most of the higher individuals would fall into because of the group consciousness the people have that makes teaching something different very difficult.
    The next level, most people would think, would be the one who manipulates the people, and the higher level after that would be for the one who alarms and tries to bring the people into a higher state of being. However, if one is to look at both of these higher men beyond good and evil, then they would fall into the same level.
    An Individual with a higher consciousness (higher man), is not going to be controlled, it may appear that he is controlled, even if he is doing nothing, but inside his mind he is free and not a part of the group consciousness, which allows him to at any point he wishes break out and follow his own higher self and, if he choose to, manipulate others into following him.
    Out there is huge group of sheep, you can lead them to a slaughter house, to jump out of a cliff, to a nice farm, but in the progress these sheep do not know where they are going, so even if you are bringing them into a nice farm so they can live happy forever they do not know this, they are just following you.
    There are many people who have a higher level of consciousness, this "higher man" does not have to be holy or enlightened, he just has to be able to think in a way that most cannot, and this allows him to live in a complete different reality than others. The challenge is to get others to see this different reality, or get them to see whatever the higher man wants them to see using his own reality.

    I was/am pretty high while typing this, it only seemed appropriate to write in this post:jointsmile:
    Couldn't ever have said it better myself. The higher man is beyond the bullshit, so to speak.
    \"All murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.\"-Voltaire

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  3.     
    #12
    Member

    "The higher man"

    The idea of higher man just doesn't work in my mind. That being said if there was one I don't think they would be spending there short time on this earth trying to manipulate man kind. I believe the person doing that is clearly displaying if higher man exists it is not them.

  4.     
    #13
    Senior Member

    "The higher man"

    there are many varrying degrees of the individual. some of us are stupid, some of us are weak, some of us are slow, some of us are just plain ignorant.


    we are all equal in the sense that we all possess the same capacity of self improvement and self betterment. but that is a matter of free will to decide weather or not to WORK FOR IT.



    most people are too lazy to work for self betterment, and these are the "lesser" people he speaks of. the higher man is merely the one who uses his free will to achieve self betterment.


    However, Nietzsche neglects to take into consideration personal responsibility, thus proving he was actually one of the lesser beings himself.


    His neglect of morality proves that he is a lesser person, for we all have the duty to take responsibility for ourselves, and those of whom cannot will cause more ill in their ripples than not. the truly higher man is an individual who can responsibly affect the world around him to improve the living conditions not only for himself, but for all others in his environment.

  5.     
    #14
    Senior Member

    "The higher man"

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoner Shadow Wolf
    there are many varrying degrees of the individual. some of us are stupid, some of us are weak, some of us are slow, some of us are just plain ignorant.


    we are all equal in the sense that we all possess the same capacity of self improvement and self betterment. but that is a matter of free will to decide weather or not to WORK FOR IT.



    most people are too lazy to work for self betterment, and these are the "lesser" people he speaks of. the higher man is merely the one who uses his free will to achieve self betterment.


    However, Nietzsche neglects to take into consideration personal responsibility, thus proving he was actually one of the lesser beings himself.


    His neglect of morality proves that he is a lesser person, for we all have the duty to take responsibility for ourselves, and those of whom cannot will cause more ill in their ripples than not. the truly higher man is an individual who can responsibly affect the world around him to improve the living conditions not only for himself, but for all others in his environment.
    Yeah, the supreme irony is that, though brilliant, Nietzsche had shades of the lower man...

    I don't know...I'm sure you've all noticed this: some people can just GET IT, and some can't. I mean, some people can watch a sunrise and be deeply touched with its majesty, and some can look at the same thing and just see some light, no different in their consciousness than fluorescent ones. The former person would be the higher one. Also, we have a choice in our 21st century lives: we can live, or we can become totally lost in the web of bullshit and not care one bit...that for me defines the lower man, one who can watch MTV with an uncritical eye.

  6.     
    #15
    Senior Member

    "The higher man"

    High and low are simply words.
    Superiority is a social illness.

  7.     
    #16
    Senior Member

    "The higher man"

    Quote Originally Posted by psychocat
    High and low are simply words.
    Superiority is a social illness.
    Haha funny how we're debating basically the same principles in the music forum...

    Voltaire and Aldous Huxley were above the common dipshits of their day, end of story.

  8.     
    #17
    Senior Member

    "The higher man"

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoner Shadow Wolf
    However, Nietzsche neglects to take into consideration personal responsibility, thus proving he was actually one of the lesser beings himself.

    His neglect of morality proves that he is a lesser person, for we all have the duty to take responsibility for ourselves, and those of whom cannot will cause more ill in their ripples than not. the truly higher man is an individual who can responsibly affect the world around him to improve the living conditions not only for himself, but for all others in his environment.
    Thats OK... but morality and intelligence are not always related, so there can be people like Nietszche, who was very intelligent but not very moral.
    And i think its so because morality is not an absolute thing, but an abstract and very subjetive one, defined in terms of some concepts, values, and maybe even feelings. But as concepts and mainly values are intelligence based, people of different levels of intelligence may have different concepts and values, and thus different standards of morality (or even none).
    So, maybe Nietszche could seem not moral for our usual standards, but maybe someone with the same intelligence and values of him would think that his (lack of) morality was perfectly OK.

  9.     
    #18
    Senior Member

    "The higher man"

    Quote Originally Posted by psychocat
    Superiority is a social illness.
    the denial of superiority is the disease of a failing society. it breeds the concept of enforced equality and forces us all into the same molds of mediocrity. if there is no place for the superior mind, then there is no place for innovation and alternative thought. there is no doubt that there are those who think differently than the masses, possibly better, and to consider thinking differently an "illness" is one of the first steps to the stagnation and collapse of a society.

    the problem with superiority is not those who attain it, but those who are unable to grasp that new way of thinking and are envious of those few who are capable of rising above the humdrum existence of lesser creatures. we cling to our mediocrity and see only evil in the alternatives. it's sad but true that, though we long for something better, we destroy anyone who might see that better way and force them into the accepted stereotypes of the craven mob.

  10.     
    #19
    Senior Member

    "The higher man"

    Quote Originally Posted by Coelho
    Thats OK... but morality and intelligence are not always related, so there can be people like Nietszche, who was very intelligent but not very moral.
    And i think its so because morality is not an absolute thing, but an abstract and very subjetive one, defined in terms of some concepts, values, and maybe even feelings. But as concepts and mainly values are intelligence based, people of different levels of intelligence may have different concepts and values, and thus different standards of morality (or even none).
    So, maybe Nietszche could seem not moral for our usual standards, but maybe someone with the same intelligence and values of him would think that his (lack of) morality was perfectly OK.

    Morality is simple: That which causes harm is not morally sound.

    which brings into play greater and lesser evils.

    is it a greater or lesser evil to manipulate a "lesser" man into living a productive life, as opposed to leaving him to his own devices and wind up living a homeless life?


    the matter of morality rests on the man's own opinion of the two scenarios.

    If the man has a preference for one or the other, his moral ground would lie in that area.


    if the man would prefer a homeless life, to interfere and "improve" his life would be morally wrong.




    Morality and intelligence must go hand in hand, for without intelligence, morality would be lost on the individual, likewise, without morality, intelligence would be wasted.



    Universal morality lies in respect and responsibility.

    Respect the free will of others, and use your own free will responsibly, and you will walk a morally sound path.

    Neglect your personal responsibility or to respect the freedom of others, and you will walk an amoral path.


    It shouldnt take a lot of intelligence to understand the simplicity of morality. if you dont get it, maybe you're over thinking things...

  11.     
    #20
    Senior Member

    "The higher man"

    How exactly is intellect measured ?
    Is a brain surgeon more intelligent than a mechanic ?
    I suppose that would depend on wether you had an anuerism or a blocked carb..
    Is the downs syndrome child who plays piano like a demon or can recount all the inportant dates from the last two centuries less inteligent than you or I ?
    It's a question of supposed importance and mans need to feel superior to others in the pecking order of life.

    Basically it's bollocks ! :thumbsup:

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