"The higher man"

[overgrowthegovt]

In "Beyond Good and Evil", Nietzsche talks about the higher man and how he is superior in virtually every way to the lower beings. Nietzsche is controversial in that he rejects egalitarianism and believes that a lot of people are just stupid scum who are only fit to be mindlessly entertained to stop them from causing trouble.

The higher man he seems to be talking about is a poet or a philosopher or somebody with a keen awareness who thinks and feels deeply, somebody immune to propaganda to a large degree, someone who questions. Most people claim that all souls are equal, but Nietzsche said these souls are just better and that it is in no way immoral for these people to manipulate the idiots for their own ends.

What do you guys think about this?

Simply by virtue of being in a philosophy forum, we here meet a lot of the higher man criteria...seeing as how the "lower orders" would call philosophy "gay" and go listen to some Soulja Boy. I'm not sure what to think of it...on the one hand, there are definite gaps in understanding between people (and subsequently in inner beauty), but on the other hand, you can't just trample somebody for being a fool...they could still be well-meaning and kind and all that.

Thoughts? Does a higher man exist or are we all equal, the "higher man" just being stronger in some areas?

overgrowthegovt Reviewed by overgrowthegovt on 11-03-2008. "The higher man" In "Beyond Good and Evil", Nietzsche talks about the higher man and how he is superior in virtually every way to the lower beings. Nietzsche is controversial in that he rejects egalitarianism and believes that a lot of people are just stupid scum who are only fit to be mindlessly entertained to stop them from causing trouble. The higher man he seems to be talking about is a poet or a philosopher or somebody with a keen awareness who thinks and feels deeply, somebody immune to propaganda to a Rating: 5

[Coelho]

Im deadly sure that there is a lot of "higher men"... but i dont think the fact we are "higher" gives us the right to use the fooler ones as tools for our own purposes.
Even because there are ones who are still "higher" than this "higher men" and so would regard them as idiots too... there is no end to "highness", so no level of "highness" can ensure one is at the "top" and thus can do whatever it wish.

[overgrowthegovt]

Oh, I agree...I mean, we can't just trample over anyone who's lower. I suppose the issue was over whether or not these higher people are in fact simply superior to the lower orders and not merely more self-aware or spiritual or whatever. You seem to agree to an extent.

I don't really think Nietzsche was talking about a real hierarchy, though, more a "you're high or you're dirt" sort of thing. On or off the bus, really...seating doesn't matter so much.

[Peruvian Devil]

In a perfect world no one would be "higher" than other, however, in the times we live people are manufactured to be "lower", to follow and not think, and it's very easy to manipulate them. It's clear that the people who are content or oblivious to the manipulation are not gonna change, these people are happy, or think they are happy. Knowing that these people are incapable of change of consciousness (like trying to convince someone that cannabis does not kill your braincells) it becomes the responsibility of a "higher" consciousness to manipulate them, because that is all you can do with them, into something that will lead them into a better standard of living and thinking. We have seen many of these "higher" individuals try and fail, because people just refuse to listen to a person who thinks differently. So now other "higher" people use the way people think to manipulate them into a lower standard of living and thinking. At this times topics like these sure go beyond good and evil

[thecreator]

IDK I agree with the term "Higher man" but I think compassion,sympathy and empathy are true factors in ones supremacy....Not so much as needs or mandates but qualities that should be developed in enlightenment.True their are separations in thought but until it is harbored then I believe anyone on a higher plane would be unlucky;such as ourselves (with the obvious contradiction for were here conversing on said thoughts instead of harboring said knowledge and shielding it from the masses) . If that makes any sense,its a bit brief for I'm at work but I am planning on expanding upon the fact as soon as 6 hits.

[overgrowthegovt]

IDK I agree with the term "Higher man" but I think compassion,sympathy and empathy are true factors in ones supremacy....Not so much as needs or mandates but qualities that should be developed in enlightenment.True their are separations in thought but until it is harbored then I believe anyone on a higher plane would be unlucky;such as ourselves (with the obvious contradiction for were here conversing on said thoughts instead of harboring said knowledge and shielding it from the masses) . If that makes any sense,its a bit brief for I'm at work but I am planning on expanding upon the fact as soon as 6 hits.

I agree with you, mostly. Someone like Iago (in Othello) couldn't really be considered higher if they're cold, empty and self-serving...there are people I know who, while perhaps not that classically intelligent, I would consider higher simply because their souls seem to be fashioned for kindness and a kind of ineffable spiritual purity. "Higher" has nothing whatsoever to do with IQ, I don't believe...I think it's all to do with awareness, depth, free thought, and the qualities you mentioned.

[Priincesss]

Well are my thoughts were pritty well mentioned. So I'll just try to summorize whats running threw my mind, even though they were pritty well said already..
1- I do think there is a higher power
2- Sure, he is superior but like was mentioned through different emotions like empathy aposed to arrogence and self-righteousness.. but although he is superior, he doesn't act superior
3- Just because people may be 'higher' then other, I know I still do it but its not right to take advantage of the dipshits in our community

.. It probibly would have been easier to say dito.. wut what fun would that be

~

[delusionsofNORMALity]

Does a higher man exist or are we all equal, the "higher man" just being stronger in some areas?

nietzsche's concept of the higher man tends to lack the same moral compass that nietzsche himself lacked. the higher man must be capable of seeing his own flaws and would therefore see that he is due no superior rights. the higher man sees no point in abusing lower species, there would be nothing to be gained and the very act would make him less than what he aspires to be. the higher man must be more than mere superior intelligence, he must be morally superior as well. what enlightened morality could justify treating his inferiors with anything less than benevolence? inherent in the higher man must be the desire to raise all others to that same state, without the desire to force change on those unwilling to take that leap.

the egalitarian ideal denies the possibility of the higher man and dooms us to mediocrity. the myth of universal equality is the product of the herd mentality, self-made victims feeding on the strength of the slightest show of superiority in an attempt to weaken it and force it to conform to the accepted norm of the masses. the higher man must be capable of either avoiding the draining effects of the masses or of retaining enough of himself to avoid being enveloped by the hive.

there is little doubt that there are many who desire to be that higher man, but simple yearning cannot be enough. the path to the higher man must wend its way through pain, effort and the voluntary sacrifice of those things that really don't matter. the higher man is due no accolades nor does he seek them, they are meaningless and he would see through the sham of such banality. the higher man needs no more power than that required to govern himself. the higher man has no purpose but higher still.

[tomm01]

WEll said delusionsofNORMALity.
However I think that the higher man can definitely manipulate the lower man without becoming lower. Like Peruvian Devil said, you can manipulate the lower man to a more high point of view, because they are not capable of becoming higher by themselves. By this I mean they are not really able to exercise free-thought and look into things themselves without being biased towards the popular or common view.

I think higher people are the same as lower but the only difference is that they CAN think freely and do what they think is right. But that makes a HUGE difference.

Whether it's better or not is up to debate. Higher people have solace in the fact that they are more intelligent or free thinking than lower people who just blindly follow. However it is a lot easier to just blindly follow and you will probably be happier doing so if you've never known the state of being higher. Ignorance is bliss so they say, I tend to agree but....

Alan Watts, who is learning Buddhist Zen, has spoken on the topic of so called higher people. But he says that when you reach enlightenment you will realise that there really is no higher or lower type of person. This is because there really is no correct way. Why is being a 'higher man' better than being lower?

So when you are enlightened you are probably the 'highest' you can get. But you realise that there is no higher or lower. Therefore you can go on being happy as well just like the 'lower' people.

It's hard to explain, especially in a forum but if anyone knows what I'm talking about please explain it better than me lol.

[Peruvian Devil]

Some people here, I think, have taken the term of a higher man and turned it into a holy man. The higher man, at least the one I'm talking about, is beyond good and evil, a higher man is just an individual who has broken away from the group consciousness and can see past the control, manipulation and nonsense. This allows this individual to either, do nothing, alert others of the manipulation or choose to manipulate them himself/herself.
Of course then this would mean that there are different levels of a higher state, with the lowest being that of the one who does nothing, the level in which most of the higher individuals would fall into because of the group consciousness the people have that makes teaching something different very difficult.
The next level, most people would think, would be the one who manipulates the people, and the higher level after that would be for the one who alarms and tries to bring the people into a higher state of being. However, if one is to look at both of these higher men beyond good and evil, then they would fall into the same level.
An Individual with a higher consciousness (higher man), is not going to be controlled, it may appear that he is controlled, even if he is doing nothing, but inside his mind he is free and not a part of the group consciousness, which allows him to at any point he wishes break out and follow his own higher self and, if he choose to, manipulate others into following him.
Out there is huge group of sheep, you can lead them to a slaughter house, to jump out of a cliff, to a nice farm, but in the progress these sheep do not know where they are going, so even if you are bringing them into a nice farm so they can live happy forever they do not know this, they are just following you.
There are many people who have a higher level of consciousness, this "higher man" does not have to be holy or enlightened, he just has to be able to think in a way that most cannot, and this allows him to live in a complete different reality than others. The challenge is to get others to see this different reality, or get them to see whatever the higher man wants them to see using his own reality.

I was/am pretty high while typing this, it only seemed appropriate to write in this post:jointsmile: