Obama Bombshell Redistribution of Wealth

[maladroit]

"I think you misunderstand what speculation is."

- nope



"A place such as oil futures doesn't need MUCH speculative trading because it is a proven market."

- regardless, there is MUCH speculative trading on oil futures...even fox news can see that:
FOXNews.com - The Danger of Speculation - FOX Fan

Study pins oil-price volatility on speculation - Oil & energy




"Oil usage is effected on a global scale and is not local to just the United States. And there has been a significant reduction in oil since July. I am not sure where you're getting your information from but it's just flat out wrong."

- if i am flat out wrong, then it should be a simple matter for you to prove it by showing me how global oil demand or supply changed enough to justify a 600% increase in price between 2003 and 2008, and then a 50% decrease in price in the past 3.5 months



"You are confused on what our current down turn resulted from."

- nope again



"The housing market was still hot and going; however it was only going on strong due to sub par lending practices that were leveraged against financial institutions from the Clinton Administration."

- fannie and freddie are not from the clinton administration, and they were on the sidelines of the subprime crisis:
McClatchy Washington Bureau | 10/12/2008 | Private sector loans, not Fannie or Freddie, triggered crisis



"uhh.. did you really read what is said on there? It is not much different from what I've been saying in regards to taxes."

- of course i read it...i posted that link because it is exactly what you've been saying in regards to taxes...i understand the theory, but it doesn't match reality



"So this article seems to be in line with the definition of supply and demand"

- nope...here are a few excerpts from that link:

OPEC's move to keep oil output unchanged was a message to the market that crude supplies are sufficient, a view not shared by *speculators* who pushed the price of crude to fresh record highs on Thursday, analysts said...Prices surged in the fallout from what was an absolute hysterical reaction to OPEC's decision...Thus, when OPEC tells us the (oil supply and demand) fundamentals have decoupled from prices and the speculators are running roughshod over the futures market, they have a point...OPEC on Wednesday blamed the high cost of crude on speculative buying as investors sought a haven amid a weak dollar and high inflation. "You get the feeling that even if OPEC had announced a production increase the market was still going to move higher," said the Schork Report..."The fundamentals [supply and demand] are still miles away from providing a clear justification for the current price level," Petromatrix analyst Olivier Jakob said following OPEC's latest output decision.



"What is it again that you're trying to prove?"

- i am trying to prove that supply and demand have been 'decoupled' from oil prices and that supply side economics doesn't work


"Are you arguing against me for the sake of arguing? At this point it seems like you don't understand what you're talking about."

- i am not stupid and i don't think you are either or i wouldn't waste my time discussing these important issues related to the current financial crisis and government policies...i am not disagreeing with you for the sake of argument, or trying to piss you off with snarky comments about your being confused and lacking understanding...i am trying to be as clear and polite as simple text allows...some of these issues are extremely complicated and i learn a lot from people in these type of discussions

[daihashi]

all I have to say is the information is there and you can use google just as well as I can.

I'm not conceding but I've grown tired of this topic. I've explained it numerous times; pointed out how the exact links you're sourcing fall in line with what I'm saying.

I don't know how much clearer it can be shown and I have lost interest in trying to explain. The loan crisis did stem from the clinton administration which I've provided you with more than a dozen links across multiple threads. A few of which Bill Clinton even says in interviews that his administration and democrats from that era placed plenty of pressure on the financial institutions.

Enjoy the thread; I'm done.

[daihashi]

I just want to make it clear.. I'm not mad, upset or anything like that. I am genuinely just tired of participating in the thread. I like to take the time to put a lot of detail into my posts.

I feel I've contributed enough info to the thread and I'm just cutting out. I've grown tired of this thread.

People seem to think when I cut out of a thread it's because I'm mad. It's usually just because I'm tired of discussing it. The same holds true for this thread.

Hope some other people join in though. I feel this thread had some good dialogue going.

[maladroit]

i googled the global oil consumption information many times during the past couple of years and the proof is not there, so i'm not flat out wrong

i've provided links to evidence directly from the federal government websites that the bush administration and george bush personally had way more to do with the subprime crisis than bill clinton (see link below)...bill clinton has been out of office for 8 years and people are still blaming stuff on him...subprime loans accounted for about 4% of all mortgages when clinton moved out of the white house compared to late 2007 when subprime mortgages accounted for over 20% of all mortgages...i am not saying that bill clinton or the democrats are totally innocent but there should be more accountability for the fiscally negligent president who has been in the white house for seven years leading up to the current crisis

http://boards.cannabis.com/politics/...ml#post1923895

[maladroit]

i enjoyed the dialogue too! you and psycho taught me a thing or two about productivity and taxes

[GoldenBoy812]

All i have to say is, look at 3 years of crude inventories and the US dollar index during that time. The answer lies in there...

[maladroit]

ok i'm looking...what is the answer?

[GoldenBoy812]

ok i'm looking...what is the answer?

Both are a tad bit outdated, and lack current information. Low US dollar values allowed inventories to increase until market fundamentals trumped speculation... The US dollar rebound and lower fuel price during this current time period are a testament to the validity...