Why is socialism so bad?

[DaBudhaStank]

And for education im really not sure if that should be completly free but if the gov. helped pay for alot more then more people would be able to go to college. With more university educated people in a country I see no reason why a country wold not benefit in the long run

Education should be free, period. The attitude in this country is largely that if you don't go to college immediately out of high school, you will fail and have very little opportunity at a fulfilling life. We put more pressure on kids to go to school than ever before, making it almost the only option in many cases, and yet we make it nearly impossible to go. Insane, arbitrary costs that could easily be covered by the school itself given the proper funding. Anyone who went to a public high school like I did, no matter HOW good, knows it'll never stack up to the shittiest private school. Why? Money, and how no one wants to give it to the public. I've never ever understood the logic; "You better go to college, or else you're pretty much fucked. Oh yeah, by the way, we're cutting your funding by 25% and the cost of our school has risen 5k. Oops."

DaBudhaStank Reviewed by DaBudhaStank on 12-05-2008. Why is socialism so bad? Hello Everyone! I have been following the presidential race and the arguments in these forums for the past few weeks. One of the new issues is SOCIALISM. I lived in the United States for 17 years, but moved back to my home country of Finland a couple years ago. Finland is a Socialist Democracy. We have free health care, free education through your bachelor's degree (when you turn 18, the gov. also pays for 80% of your rent and grocery money(240â?¬/month), and allows you to take out Rating: 5

[daihashi]

Education should be free, period. The attitude in this country is largely that if you don't go to college immediately out of high school, you will fail and have very little opportunity at a fulfilling life. We put more pressure on kids to go to school than ever before, making it almost the only option in many cases, and yet we make it nearly impossible to go. Insane, arbitrary costs that could easily be covered by the school itself given the proper funding. Anyone who went to a public high school like I did, no matter HOW good, knows it'll never stack up to the shittiest private school. Why? Money, and how no one wants to give it to the public. I've never ever understood the logic; "You better go to college, or else you're pretty much fucked. Oh yeah, by the way, we're cutting your funding by 25% and the cost of our school has risen 5k. Oops."

I went to a public school and I ran circles around the private school kids. That's not a testament to my school by any means; but it is to say that going to a private school doesn't necessarily make you smarter. It starts with the Teacher, and then the student + Parents. If one of those 3 aren't cooperating or working well with each other then the student will underperform unless they have a means to overcome the handicap.

We do need more funding for education but I don't think that's the end all solution for improvement.

[GoldenBoy812]

I went to a public school and I ran circles around the private school kids. That's not a testament to my school by any means; but it is to say that going to a private school doesn't necessarily make you smarter. It starts with the Teacher, and then the student + Parents. If one of those 3 aren't cooperating or working well with each other then the student will underperform unless they have a means to overcome the handicap.

We do need more funding for education but I don't think that's the end all solution for improvement.

When you pay to send your children to a "good school", you are not paying for the quality of the education. Instead, you are paying for the privilege of sitting next to someone else who is privileged (be it either socioeconomically or talent).

[GoldenBoy812]

That was early 20th century. This is now. Times change, GB. Our society should reflect that.

Of course times change, what is your point? I have observed this phenomenon myself on numerous occasions. When a group of workers are paid the same, they try not to work harder than the others. If there is a group of workers who has a member who makes more money than they do, that person, in my experiences, works/is working harder and longer than the others. This holds true especially when compensation is quota/status/production based.

Why do you think most CEO's get paid the big bucks? Bill Gates did not hire Balmer and relinquish his role as CEO in a show of gratitude.

We can't prove otherwise because the countries that flew under a socialist banner were, in reality, communists.

Yes, they were communists. The US is a republican nation, with a strong democratic tradition who's economy is primarily based on capitalism. The economic system in the former USSR was a centrally planned socialist system.

Don't bring that stuff up in here, GB. I told you in the other thread, we act the way you describe because it's the way we've been taught since the Industrial Revolution. It's not necessary anymore, or at least won't be within the next century.

When used as a premise in an argument, opinions will be taken with a grain of salt.

Read up on your psychology. Humans are products of their environments, not their genes.

Michael Jordan was a 6'6" black man, with unbelievable athleticism because of his environment? :wtf:

You and I, and everyone who grew up in this capitalist society, were taught from the beginning that the status quo is the way things "should" be. We're on a marijuana board for God's sake. You can't believe that society is fine the way it is.

Citizens of the United States are permitted to form a socialist community, just so long as it is completely voluntary and not in violation of US law. Socialist societies have existed within the US dating back to 1825.

Ever hear of Robert Owen???

[JakeMartinez]

Of course times change, what is your point? I have observed this phenomenon myself on numerous occasions. When a group of workers are paid the same, they try not to work harder than the others. If there is a group of workers who has a member who makes more money than they do, that person, in my experiences, works/is working harder and longer than the others. This holds true especially when compensation is quota/status/production based.

Why do you think most CEO's get paid the big bucks? Bill Gates did not hire Balmer and relinquish his role as CEO in a show of gratitude.



Yes, they were communists. The US is a republican nation, with a strong democratic tradition who's economy is primarily based on capitalism. The economic system in the former USSR was a centrally planned socialist system.



When used as a premise in an argument, opinions will be taken with a grain of salt.



Michael Jordan was a 6'6" black man, with unbelievable athleticism because of his environment? :wtf:



Citizens of the United States are permitted to form a socialist community, just so long as it is completely voluntary and not in violation of US law. Socialist societies have existed within the US dating back to 1825.

Ever hear of Robert Owen???

Athleticism is a physical, not psychological, trait.

You're talking about motivation to work harder and more efficiently. Those come from the mind, not the body.

[Cederfern]

we'll just have to agree to disagree then. personally, I don't see society as a whole just policing itself and everyone doing the right thing without being forced to. Looking out for yourself all the time just ruins society, since no one cares about anyone else. If you want to arm everyone and say "Go nuts", you're in for a VERY rude awakening.

And no, I don't call police legal vengeance. There's a difference between the words Justice and Vengeance for a reason. Vengeance is for personal satisfaction, to settle a score, justice is to see that those who pray on the innocent are punished. Eliminate the police, and I'll fuckin' kill you, because who's to stop me? You? Indeed, perhaps the police wouldn't have a chance to STOP me, but they have a MUCH better chance of catching me than your family and friends do. Also, god forbid we have a set of people who seek out thieves and crooks. I don't know about you, but if I get robbed at gun point by some psycho, I don't think I wanna try and get my shit back from them. Why you ask? Because I'll get fucking SHOT, and that bastard will get away with it without a team of dedicated, well equipped and well armed people to stop them. I guess my desire to NOT murder and steal makes me ill-equipped for anarchy.

People are more than capable of getting revenge without police, and that's why its wrong. If you're seeking revenge instead of justice, if you want personal satisfaction instead of benefiting your society, you need to step back and analyze your life.

how can you say that NO ONE cares about anyone else? you never met me. i sure dont want to care about someone who expects me not to, i wouldnt want to let your expectations down!

how can you say that revenge and justice are not identical? revenge is justifyed by the ill deeds of others. and justice is no different. justice is nothing more than revenge through legislation. why do you care if a petty crook is serving time when a white collar criminal is fucking the economy every day?


what is more important, jailing the little people for petty crimes, or apprehending people for crimes that affect the nation or world level?


of police werent so focused on apprehending drug offenders and petty thieves, they might have time to spend preventing murderers and rapists from walking free. let alone corrupt authorities.

The police are bigger criminals than the majority of people they are arresting.

Anarchy wouldnt turn into chaos so universally either. not everyone in the world is a despicable douchebag. in fact, most people actually give a damn. most people would be looking out for each other, we would have each other's backs. it wouldnt be a clique or group of people under the same flag, it would be a union of all of humanity under every flag. not just one.


confusing, maybe, chaotic? far less than the system we are currently using.


anarchy is about simplicity and personal responsibility.


Those of us who are protectors at heart would be the equivelant of police, and we would keep an ever watchful eye on our communities to apprehend violent people immediately.


there are many of us who seek violence, and many more who seek to correct violence.




dont be a nay sayer of something you have never experienced.

[GoddessHerb]

Wow, I always knew people in the US were undereducated but I never knew they were this undereducated. We do NOT LIVE IN A TRUE DEMOCRACY! We live in a plutocratic oligarchy (rich corporate special interests) where the rich (via their corporations) control EVERYTHING. If you don't believe that then you don't understand what really runs the US government. I will be very surprised if Obama accomplishes much of anything let alone in the way of socialism but I say better then letting a few people get super rich by manipulating and using others because they bought the people who make the rules. The rules are so convoluted and ever-changing so that only those who can afford specialists to navigate or change them can play the game. Time to level the playing field IMHO. Even a non profit has a million hoops to jump through and all they want to do is make society a better place. :wtf:

I'm not a fan of socialism or capitalism but especially not socialized capitalism (bailouts). But the rich love socialism as long as it benefits them in some way or another. Socialism is ok as long as the money goes in their pockets and not ours. They (the rich) seem to think that they know how to make society better then the rest of us do, (hence the reason Warren Buffet gave Bill Gates almost all of his money) especially if they can profit from it in some way. The people still have masters, slavery never ended it just expanded to include all minorities (women, egalitarian white men, black, hispanic, asian, etc.) I used to want to be rich. But, now I see them for what they are slave masters that think they're better and smarter than everyone else because they have money. I don't want money. I'm not stupid or lazy, I just choose to be poor. Money and stuff get in the way of what's really important, people. It's ignorance and arrogance that are destroying our country. Ignorance of the abused and arrogance of the abusers.

To not want an egalitarian society is a shameful thing because it just shows that 1) you have no idea how a society truly works and 2)you feel so inferior to others that the only way you can value yourself if with external means (money and stuff). If you don't want to help your fellow countryman go live on a private island. You shouldn't be part of or benefit from society in any way anyway. When I see someone write that they don't want to pay for some lazy asshole I see someone who is selfish and doesn't want a better life for anyone but themselves. In my opinion people who don't want to better society shouldn't be part of it, period. By helping that lazy asshole find purpose and strength you are helping yourself not have to pay for them. But people just don't get it. Unless they see something in it for them directly they just won't do anything about it. Well we'll see what happens when the depression comes to the entire world this time. Like it or not we are all in this together. We all need to work together or destroy each other. We'll see which way it goes. Either way I'm sure this rock (that we're all together) hurdling through time and space that we call Earth will never be the same.:smokin: Just my :twocents:

Blessed be~

[JeffersonBud]

I know what you mean but you can't just lump everyone into a category and not think there are exceptions to the rule. Stop being so ignorant. Not everyone in a situation is the same or believes in the same. Not all people in the US believe what you think. There are 7 billion of us. We all have different thoughts. Stop thinking you know the situation when you only lump your accusations into segregation. I find no peace and equality in your thought.

[thcbongman]

Education should be free, period. The attitude in this country is largely that if you don't go to college immediately out of high school, you will fail and have very little opportunity at a fulfilling life. We put more pressure on kids to go to school than ever before, making it almost the only option in many cases, and yet we make it nearly impossible to go. Insane, arbitrary costs that could easily be covered by the school itself given the proper funding. Anyone who went to a public high school like I did, no matter HOW good, knows it'll never stack up to the shittiest private school. Why? Money, and how no one wants to give it to the public. I've never ever understood the logic; "You better go to college, or else you're pretty much fucked. Oh yeah, by the way, we're cutting your funding by 25% and the cost of our school has risen 5k. Oops."

You bring a good point. Why America hasn't socialized education along time ago is mind boggling to me. Currently America spends the most, but doesn't produce the same efficient result as countries with socialized education systems. Also citizens are resources that produce capital for a country, so wouldn't it make sense for the government to provide the means to get an education if you show the willingness too? I feel it'd raise the quality of education as well as providing a service to maintain a healthy society.

[JakeMartinez]

You bring a good point. Why America hasn't socialized education along time ago is mind boggling to me. Currently America spends the most, but doesn't produce the same efficient result as countries with socialized education systems. Also citizens are resources that produce capital for a country, so wouldn't it make sense for the government to provide the means to get an education if you show the willingness too? I feel it'd raise the quality of education as well as providing a service to maintain a healthy society.

Because you can't create a class of poor, economically dominated slaves if they're smart enough to know how bad they're being fucked.

Just look at the third world, where people are denied proper education, and yet go to work for American-based corporations for less than a dollar a day.