Why is socialism so bad?

[bigtopsfinn]

Hello Everyone!

I have been following the presidential race and the arguments in these forums for the past few weeks. One of the new issues is SOCIALISM. I lived in the United States for 17 years, but moved back to my home country of Finland a couple years ago.

Finland is a Socialist Democracy. We have free health care, free education through your bachelor's degree (when you turn 18, the gov. also pays for 80% of your rent and grocery money(240â?¬/month), and allows you to take out gov. backed student loans), and a welfare system that assures no Finnish citizen is without a roof over their heads or food on the table.

Our taxes are very high, about 19-20% income tax. We are also the second most expensive country in the EU, behind only the UK. But we still have people who have nice houses, plenty of Mercedes and BMW's on the roads, and people travel abroad frequently for vacations.

After living in both the U.S. and Finland, I think I would choose Finland, because it is a very safe country (yes we had 2 school shootings recently, which shocked all of us, but otherwise very low crime and the least corrupt country in the world), very clean country, high standard of education, and a great place to raise a family.

Please do not think that I am putting down the U.S. in any way. I liked living there, but I prefer here for the reasons stated above. Once I graduate, I will probably move somewhere else in Europe, just because its too fucking cold here.

I just want to know your opinions of why Socialism is really that bad. It might not be for everyone, but it's certainly not communism. Hopefully this thread won't get too out of hand:jointsmile:

bigtopsfinn Reviewed by bigtopsfinn on 10-27-2008. Why is socialism so bad? Hello Everyone! I have been following the presidential race and the arguments in these forums for the past few weeks. One of the new issues is SOCIALISM. I lived in the United States for 17 years, but moved back to my home country of Finland a couple years ago. Finland is a Socialist Democracy. We have free health care, free education through your bachelor's degree (when you turn 18, the gov. also pays for 80% of your rent and grocery money(240â?¬/month), and allows you to take out Rating: 5

[thcbongman]

I very much agree with you. I am American, but I lived in Switzerland, Germany and the Czech Republic and if I had a chance to to live in any country in Europe, I'd hop on the next plane without hesistation. The safety net that most western european citizens get is unparrallel and it's a life I find to be less stressful because of it. I never understood why America couldn't adopt some of the policies especially when it comes to education and health care. People get the wrong idea that they have to go through their systems, their private schools and hospitals there like anywhere in America that you can chose to pay for it yourself if you want. But why when those school systems and heath care systems are some of the best in the world?

[IAmKowalski]

There are a lot of reasons for this - first, realize that Americans don't actually know what they are talking about when they use the word "Socialist". Realize too that Americans have a very cartoonish and very black and white view of the world. Socialist and/or communist are the same thing in American speak - and what comes to mind immediately when you say the word "Socialist" to the average American is a grim militaristic society in which everyone is desperately poor, wears all gray, and stands in line all day for a loaf of bread while guards on every street corner hold machine guns and glare at people.

I wish I were exaggerating, but I'm not.

Most Americans have no clue what Socialism actually is - just that it's evil and bad. If you want to discredit someone's beliefs, just label them as "Socialist" then the debate gets shifted so they have to deny the charge. Now rather than discussing their ideas, we manage to reduce the discussion to "No I'm Not"/"Yes You Are".

As a result, we have a sub-minimal welfare system, we have a for-profit health-care industry in which any illness can be catastrophic for those without insurance both to their health and to their finances (and they better hope they're healthy before they run out of cash or they're out of luck - if you have no cash then bandages in an emergency room are all the healthcare you can get buddy), and we have continually rising costs of college education.

But the thing is that Americans think we have the best quality of life and the best healthcare system of anyplace in the world - and good luck telling anyone otherwise! It's gospel, it's a basic religion to Americans that our way is the best and that everyone else just wishes they could live here instead of standing in line in their gray coats shivering and waiting for bread.

[stoned88911]

Have u ever heard about "THE AMERICAN DREAM"

And before someone says i dont know what it is ill go ahead and post a definition.

Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating state or collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and the creation of an egalitarian society


Its not fair when some one works hard then gets the same benefits of some lazy asshole.

America is the right to choose what u want, not have goverment do it for u.

[IAmKowalski]

Have u ever heard about "THE AMERICAN DREAM"

And before someone says i dont know what it is ill go ahead and post a definition.

Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating state or collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and the creation of an egalitarian society


Its not fair when some one works hard then gets the same benefits of some lazy asshole.

America is the right to choose what u want, not have goverment do it for u.

Thank you so much for demonstrating my point.

[stoned88911]

Thank you so much for demonstrating my point.

Ya that u dont know what ur talking about.

[bigtopsfinn]

Have u ever heard about "THE AMERICAN DREAM"

And before someone says i dont know what it is ill go ahead and post a definition.

Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating state or collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and the creation of an egalitarian society


Its not fair when some one works hard then gets the same benefits of some lazy asshole.

America is the right to choose what u want, not have goverment do it for u.

Thanks for the replies! And yes, I have heard of the American Dream, and it is also the reason my family moved there. I give credit to America for creating many opportunities to earn a lot of money and live a lifestyle which is unfathomable in other most other countries. The problem I saw first hand, was that not everyone can achieve this dream, that would be egalitarian... and the people who cannot realize this dream are left behind. We went from a 2 story 3 bedroom house on a lake to a 2 bedroom condo behind the ghetto when times got tough for us in the 1990's.

Now, when you talk about the state/collective ownership of production/distribution, that sounds to me more like communism. Here in Finland, the state runs the schools, health care, postal services(they own dhl here), transportation, gambling, and alcohol (i may have forgotten something). Otherwise, its a free market. And also here in Finland, if you don't work hard, you get paid less, but enough to survive. If you work harder or have your own company, you can make more money...

I just wanted to clarify that socialism, democracy, and capitalism can all co-exist, can they not?

[FlyGuyOU]

Thank you so much for demonstrating my point.

so⋅cial⋅ism

â??noun 1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.

3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

[FlyGuyOU]

I just wanted to clarify that socialism, democracy, and capitalism can all co-exist, can they not?

No they cannot

Democracy is a system of government and has very little to do with socialism or capitalism.

Socialism and Capitalism are economic theories which can be independent of governmental structure. Socialism and Capitalism are unable to coexists. Socialism is set up for the collective, Capitalism is set up for the individual.

[stoned88911]

Anyone in america can become a billionair.

It just is gonna take alot of hard work and brains.

But if ur lazy and dumb in america u will be one broke motha

Socialism doesnt give u the same opportunities.