bush administration signs cut-and-run deal in iraq

[maladroit]

Washington, Baghdad complete draft plan on U.S. troop presence
Last Updated: Wednesday, October 15, 2008
The Associated Press

The United States and Iraq have agreed to a draft security pact that requires U.S. troops to leave Iraq by the end of 2011 unless asked to stay, the Iraqi government said on Wednesday, although its implementation is far from certain.

Government spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh also said Baghdad will seek an extension of a UN mandate for the U.S. troops in Iraq â?? due to expire on Dec. 31 â?? if the pact is not in place by the end of this year.

The draft agreement also lets Iraq try U.S. troops for felonies committed off-duty. The concession on the legal immunity for U.S. forces represents the biggest bone of contention, Bush administration officials who asked not to be named told the Associated Press.

The draft, reached after months of halting and often tense talks, contains elements that are expected to further aggravate an already difficult effort to get the Iraqi government and parliament on board, the officials said.

maladroit Reviewed by maladroit on 10-15-2008. bush administration signs cut-and-run deal in iraq Washington, Baghdad complete draft plan on U.S. troop presence Last Updated: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 The Associated Press The United States and Iraq have agreed to a draft security pact that requires U.S. troops to leave Iraq by the end of 2011 unless asked to stay, the Iraqi government said on Wednesday, although its implementation is far from certain. Government spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh also said Baghdad will seek an extension of a UN mandate for the U.S. troops in Iraq â?? due Rating: 5

[maladroit]

"I believe strongly that politicians in Washington shouldn't be telling generals how to do their job. And I believe artificial timetables of withdrawal would be a mistake. An artificial timetable of withdrawal would say to an enemy, just wait them out; it would say to the Iraqis, don't do hard things necessary to achieve our objectives; and it would be discouraging for our troops. And therefore I will strongly reject an artificial timetable withdrawal and/or Washington politicians trying to tell those who wear the uniform how to do their job."
- President George W Bush, Commander-in-Flipfloppery, April 2007

[killerweed420]

The Iraqi president has been trying to get us out of iraq for months. Its time to leave.If Obama was smart, jan 1st he should start the withdrawal.

[maladroit]

question:
would you change your mind that it is time to leave if you knew with certainty that the us puppet government in iraq (or afghanistan) would fail without protection of the united states?

[Markass]

question:
would you change your mind that it is time to leave if you knew with certainty that the us puppet government in iraq (or afghanistan) would fail without protection of the united states?

We shouldn't have government over there. We shouldn't give them money, it's not our job, it's their job..We've invested enough of our money into Iraq and I think it's time for it to be spent here instead.

I'm more concerned what happens to my government than what happens to someone else's government at this point.

[Psycho4Bud]

question:
would you change your mind that it is time to leave if you knew with certainty that the us puppet government in iraq (or afghanistan) would fail without protection of the united states?

UNREAL! The PEOPLE didn't vote in their elections did they? Iraq isn't sitting down with negotiations with either Iran OR China are they? "Puppet government"....sounds like some crap from a leftist blog.

Have a good one!:s4:

[maladroit]

iraq has a puppet government primarily because the government was set up under a foreign military occupation....iraq's government is protected and controlled by the united states government who can set up military checkpoints and conduct unauthorized airstrikes on civilian targets...US troops are immune from prosecution under iraqi law...iraq's government can't even get the usa to leave the country on it's own terms - it has to submit applications to the US gov't for approval...the US government is even spying on their iraqi puppets...if your government allowed russian military to occupy america in the same way, i'd say the same thing about washington

the governments of iraq and afghanistan will probably fail after foreign troops leave, and be replaced with some hardline islamic nutters

[killerweed420]

question:
would you change your mind that it is time to leave if you knew with certainty that the us puppet government in iraq (or afghanistan) would fail without protection of the united states?

In reality from what i've read its no US puppet government, but it could be a Iran puppet government. I've read where Iran has put some people in some powerful positions in Iraq. More reason for us to just get out. As long as religion has such a strangle hold on the people in the middle east there will never be peace.

[Psycho4Bud]

controlled by the united states government who can set up military checkpoints and conduct unauthorized airstrikes on civilian targets

You've just managed to lose all credibility with me. What did the U.S. ever do to you to make you hate it so much?:wtf:

Have a good one!:s4:

[maladroit]

i don't hate the united states...i take at least two vacation there a year, and some of my best friends are americans...criticizing the US government is not the same thing as hating america: if that were true, republicans who criticized bill clinton would have been anti-american

my quote that destroyed my credibility with you is true...the usa military doesn't ask for permission to set up military checkpoints or conduct airstrikes in civilian areas...they move around where they like by land and air despite opposition from the public and the government

puppet government is not just crap from some leftist blog...it's in the US army field manual:

paragraph 366:
Local Governments Under Duress and Puppet Governments

The restrictions placed upon the authority of a belligerent government cannot be avoided by a system of using a puppet government, central or local, to carry out acts which would be unlawful if performed directly by the occupant. Acts induced or compelled by the occupant are nonetheless its acts.
FM 27-10 Chptr 6 Occupation


if the usa had invaded the country and left the government essentially intact (after whacking hussein), then iraq might still be a sovereign country...instead, the usa disbanded the entire system of government, banned people from the bathist party from participating in government, disbanded the police force, and disbanded the entire army and sent them home WITH THEIR GUNS (probably the worst decision in the occupation of iraq)...in the ensuing vaccuum, the usa created and appointed an interim government, rebuilt/trained/equipped the military, cooked up a kangaroo court to try hussein and his cronies (who were kept in US military custody), and locked up tens of thousands of iraqis and foreign nationals indefinitely without trial in american prisons...that's a puppet government

iraq has elections now, but it does not have true sovereignty as long as the military occupation continues, and iraq does not have authority over the activities of the US military...the usa is still arresting people in iraq without trial and detaining 15,000 prisoners in an american prison in iraq, most of whom are innocent enough to release:
U.S. brings Iraq prison camp out of black hole - International Herald Tribune

if all that was being done in america by russian forces, wouldn't you question the sovereignity of your country and the legitimacy of your government? i think it is possible and desirable for iraq to stand on its own, but the US occupation weakens the legitimacy of, and domestic support for iraq's new government

i bet president obama will maintain the occupation, and tag it with some cheery slogan