Quote Originally Posted by GoldenBoy812
Opinions vary:jointsmile:

The government bailout is a little too encompassing to consider US actions socialist. The world markets are collapsing. The US is not in as bad of a position then other countries (the UK has higher leveraged ratio defaults). Thursday night (Friday in Japan), the Nikki dropped nearly 10%. This is all very bad, therefore government intervention is needed because it is their actions that have led us to this field. Had markets been allowed to fall and rise at their own speed and way, a massive bubble such as the one we now all face would not exist. One of the contributing factors of the great depression was the fact that world wide market collaboration did not exist.

In almost any other scenario, i would loath government intervention, but the cost is just to great at the present time. I do not want to see mass people starving, living in the slums, mass suicides etc... By not having Universal Health Care, the scenario described will not take place.
Opinions may vary, but facts remain the same. Nationalizing the banking industry and making the US government the worlds largest bank is not socialist? Interesting! So if we help the poor a little with their medical insurance we have completely changed our system to a socialist nightmare, but a government take over of US industrys and banking is not socialist? I guess what is needed is a definition of socialism. You're kinda right I guess, its not really socialism, its something completely different, but just as disgusting as it only serves to make the problem worse and then of course, more government intervention and government ownership of industry. Thats socialism of sorts. Or is it fascism? Its kinda blurry atm because hey, we don't know what the ^%*& they are doing do we? No bank is going to loan another bank a dime unless the US backs it now. In effect it will have its hand in almost every aspect of banking. That leaves open room for all sorts of underhanded politicaly motivated BS from lenders and who ever is in charge of the government. Knowing that we have a VP choice that is said to have abused her power to punish on a personal level gots to make ya wonder at what could become of banks that are liberal, or conservetive, when the other has the power. If bank a will not loan bank b money because it is scared of bank b failing, then bank a loans money to the government who in turn then loans it to bank b. If bank b fails after said dealings, then who owns bank b? The US government and the newly created banking agency thats attached to the federal reserve??? Naw, they would never do that, right?

"The world markets are collapsing."

Yes, they are. Throwing money onto the bonfire will put out the flames? In the end it will just be fuel for the fire. You have to know that just printing a bunch of money will not help do anything but deflate the dollar. Trillion dollar packages or not, we are hosed. We can not buy our way outa this, so why keep making it worse? We could learn from mother nature. The weak are disposed of and replaced, they are not propped up artificially.

"The government bailout is a little too encompassing to consider US actions socialist."

No it is not. It is easy to see wealth distribution in governments buying houses and settling loans for people. That one lump of people with bad loans gets a bonus, a huge hand out while others get nothing, or they get higher taxes.

"The US is not in as bad of a position then other countries (the UK has higher leveraged ratio defaults)."

Its all tied together anyway. Really its still pretty bad though, and looks like it will get worse even if other economys are worse then ours.

"This is all very bad, t[B]herefore government intervention is needed because it is their actions that have led us to this field."

The best way to get control of people, to get them to give up their rights, or to accept things they normally wouldn't from government, is to create conditions that force people to accept those things. Some things are not created so much as siezed upon and used as it comes up. We had to have it right then and there, it was an emergency, and yet we have no clue as to what was even passed. We were warned it would be way worse not to let the government take control. They knew long before this that it was a problem, and did nothing. All of a sudden its this huge emergency that need to be delt with over night. 800 billion spent in such a willy nilly manner is just as disgusting as the greed that created the need for it in the first place.

"Had markets been allowed to fall and rise at their own speed and way, a massive bubble such as the one we now all face would not exist"

So why artificially prop it up some more? Are we not just blowing another huge bubble with this "bail out"? Government control of healthcare is just as bad as government control of banking. Check this out, you can't die from losing stocks.

"In almost any other scenario, i would loath government intervention"

Good for you. You fail here though, and thats the kind of thinking and isolationism that led to the rise of hitler and.................LOL!

"but the cost is just to great at the present time."

Oh yeah, we must have government intervention. Why? Because they told us we need it? Give them all the power they ask for my friend, because the cost is to high and they can fix this mess they created. Wait a sec, you want a reality market, right? So why give the people that screwed it up the power to screw it up even more?

"I do not want to see mass people starving, living in the slums, mass suicides etc..."

Nor do I. Can you tell me how this "package" is going to stop that?

"By not having Universal Health Care, the scenario described will not take place."

All or nothing, right? Lets think about these people you don't want to see, and what thier life will be like when they are sick and in a soup line. How many will jump when they can't afford to have their child seen and the child dies for lack of insurance or money to pay with? Helping a few poor people get insurance is not " Universal Health Care". Try to live in reality. Extremes are not reality, and only serve to create fog. Not in my mind, but in your own mind. You sorta propagate yourself with that kinda stuff.

Toker