"[quote=maladroit]socialist innuendo is another way of saying socialist insinuation...you are insinuating that i am a socialist...that is attributing a position to me that is not really my position, which is the meaning of straw man fallacy:
Fallacy: Straw Man"

Hmmm, socialist talk. I like it. It brings out the best in people. FR you do lean that way sorta kinda as you do seem to think that government should play a large role in our lives. History has been erased, but my memory has not. Seems a lot of "socialist" talk is pointed at Obama too, and not much at bushy, who just signed on to buying stakes in US banks making the US government part owner of said banks. Couple that with the buying of wall street, and then add in mcsocialist mccains plan to buy up everyones home morgages with tax payers money and what do you call the neo-cons? Socialists! Personally, I would benifit from nationalized health care. Thats not really a bad thing unless its run like the economy is, and it most likely would be run that way. If we are to waste money though, at least let it be for a good cause, and not so some fat cat wallstreet greedy somebitch that created his own problems can get some relief from his companys debt that he created. Paying off all this bad debt, and giving the rich bastards that created this problem with greed and foolishnes a huge bail out so they can continue this foolishnes on the backs of the tax payers doesn't have a political term as of yet. It needs a new term for that one. A capitalist society, a true capitalist society, would never prop up failed companys, or failed anything. They would be let sink and a new, better run, company would take over its position. The idea that we can fix a failed market by throwing more money into the fire is retarded.

Somewhere in this thread part of the blame goes to the foolish people that took loans they could not afford, and I agree. If you did this, then its called tough shit for you. If I go take a car loan, and then lose my job, or w/e, and can't pay for it, I lose it. If I loan money to someone that defaults and leaves me hanging with a home that is worth less then the loan, it is the risk I took when loaning the money. Point is, if my greed caused me to lose my ass, tough shit for me. I should not expect to be bailed out by tax payers for my mistakes. The system we have does not work very good. It failed us how many times now? Putting a couple band aids on a festering and infected gun shot wound and hoping it will heal its self over time ain't very bright.

First things first, end the wars. Thats 10 billion a month or more right there. Then, pull the hell out of every other country. I don't buy the theory that our troops have to be all over the world to keep other countrys running. I am of the opinion that they can do just fine without US spending who knows how much on keeping troops in country. Bloated agencys, needless spending, world wide welfare, all needs to stop. The evidence is all around that we can not continue to spend abroad the way we do. It took a long to time to create this mess, and it will not be fixed over night by printing more money. It is going to take some serious sacrifices in spending to get our country back in the condition it should be in. Right now we are disscussing wealth redistribution and no one seems to see it or care. We are taking from the many of which most are not rich, and giving to the few, of which most are rich.

The fact is that both sides did this to US. The people that want to try to say bushy and mcsocialist are some how innocent in all this can't think for themselves. Same goes for those that say the left is innocent. Its just more of the same finger pointing to often repeated to show how "smart" we are. He did it! No, he did it! Naww, it was that guy right there. Nope, it was that one over there. mcsocialist/nobama = same team...... Funny thing, you never hear either one talk much about protecting our Freedoms.

Toker