Why should McCain or Obama be President

[dragonrider]

That's like saying my wang is bigger than yours. No one really knows. I'm not sure what the work harder statement was supposed to prove aside that you're sick and working.

I'm not sure if my wang is actually bigger than yours, but I am sure it is working harder. Much harder. Oh, yeah...

It may be that the ole Bongman wasn't reacting entirely to the message of OneIn1's post, and maybe was reacting partly to the tone. I know you made a point that not all conservatives are discomapssionate, but it's hard to argue that about someone who says things like:

If you think America needs a fixing move the fuck to Europe and save me some time.

That's maybe not the most compassionate tone I've heard.

I also found this one to be a bit over the top:

Europe has mostly socialistic governments and by voting for Obama you turn America into a Socialistic government.

[daihashi]

Out of the two candidates McCain is WAY more qualified! However I dont agree with his policies so i see myself going for Obama. I really wish it wasnt on one of the two but those seem to be the cards we were dealt... I also see myself as a Democrat since im not rich...

You realize being Democrat or Republican has nothing to do with Rich or Poor correct?

[flyingimam]

Out of the two candidates McCain is WAY more qualified! However I dont agree with his policies so i see myself going for Obama. I really wish it wasnt on one of the two but those seem to be the cards we were dealt... I also see myself as a Democrat since im not rich...

u know i was thinking about a scenario

what if obama becomes president and ruins the 4 years, and we have had 8 years of bush b4 him, do u guys think, libertarians may actually pick up on next election in such a situation?

i mean ron paul to me sounded like the most reasonable candidate in means of policy and rhetoric, maybe he had a couple really ambicious ro too optimistic policies but most of what he says makes better sense than most of the garbage u hear from left or right

after we cant stay a two party democracy forever... or who knows, maybe we do stay that way! I cant predict shit about america!

[trancefusion5]

You realize being Democrat or Republican has nothing to do with Rich or Poor correct?

Yeah, just a joke. I also agree with most of the things they are about as well as the breaks for middle and lower class. It goes back to a joke i heard "When your young and naive your a democrat until you grow up and make money, then your a republican" Im not saying its true, I just thought it was funny.

[trancefusion5]

u know i was thinking about a scenario

what if obama becomes president and ruins the 4 years, and we have had 8 years of bush b4 him, do u guys think, libertarians may actually pick up on next election in such a situation?

i mean ron paul to me sounded like the most reasonable candidate in means of policy and rhetoric, maybe he had a couple really ambicious ro too optimistic policies but most of what he says makes better sense than most of the garbage u hear from left or right

after we cant stay a two party democracy forever... or who knows, maybe we do stay that way! I cant predict shit about america!

Yeah I have no idea whats going to happen. Im almost scared to vote this election just so i dont feel quilty when all hell breaks loose. I know i just got to trust the gut here and do it though...

[thcbongman]

Why does every 'sick' person think that when we say "hand-out" we are talking about them.

There is an obvious difference between people who ARE capable to provide for themselves and others who are NOT capable. I have no idea why everyone on this forum is hyper sensitive whenever someone mentions wasteful use of resources.

You would have to be living in an alternate universe to deny that this happens and that it is harmful to our country. There are people who do indeed sit at home who are capable to provide for themselves but choose to live off the government instead. These are the people that myself and many people who bring up this topic are referring to.

Honestly I'm getting tired of defending myself. Although this post wasn't addressed at me I share Onein1's point of view.

Get a grip, conservatives are not as cold hearted as people would like to believe.

I completely agree with you on the welfare aspect. Programs like Section 8 housing is vastly corrupted, lots of abuse and waste goes on. But what the hell does it have to do with automatically covering health care for people who lost their jobs and lost their insurance coverage? Why should a few rotten apples spoil it for the many more people who can't? Why should people get racked up with enormous bills while they have to wait to see if they even get medicaid or not?

I definitely agree there's a lot of waste. However I believe there are far better solutions to fixing the system.



[QUOTE]
uhh how can you even say that or prove it. This is a forum and it's moot to even bring it up. That's like saying my wang is bigger than yours. No one really knows. I'm not sure what the work harder statement was supposed to prove aside that you're sick and working.
[\QUOTE]

If you don't believe it, I don't care, doesn't change anything. I'm just telling you how it is. If you don't want to believe it so be it.

As callous as the following may sound which is more important to you? Maintaining your health as best as is currently possible or the alternative? Have you tried applying for benefits?

Living is important to me, especially having decent health insurance that takes care of my health. I don't want to jeopardize my position. I would be dumb to.

If you don't get an MRI and something happens to you then what will happen to everyone else who may depend on you and care for you? Can you put yourself in a position to let these people down or put them through sorrow?

Yeah, but I have no choice. What else can I do, gotta maintain coverage. If I lost my job and don't get a job after COBRA expires days in the case if I do get let go, I can kiss my insurability good bye. Pre-existing condition. People who aren't healthy don't have a clue of how messed up this system is, especially since I been treated . I'm in quite a good position in terms of coverage, so why ruin a good thing?

I'm not saying this to be a dick but rather to put things i perspective. Yes a job is important, yes insurance is important... but if you don't make it to tomorrow then what was the point at all? You can sit back and blame the government who has had no responsibility in the unfortunate illness you have or you can try to live as best as you can. Taking care of your *own* health should be YOUR primary responsibility and then look to the government for aid. If you're completely unable to work due to being sick then yes, I believe assistance should be handed out to these individuals as well as the handicapped (truely handicap, not people who get handicap stickers when they just have arthritis in their wrists.. WTF).

What do you think I am doing? I'm not the one relying on the government.

Welcome to America, start hunting for another job that is more sensible and compassionate towards your needs. I'm sure your employer is not the only employer in your area for your field.

My employer has been quite good to me during my illness and why should I change my job over....health care? I like my job. However company policy evolves, it's starting to signal a change of tune. You have to react and adapt to the reality.

I think if you're truely unable to work because you're sick that you should get assistance. As a matter of fact I would like to see Social Security reformed to eliminate the retirement income portion of it (it's so screwed anyway) and put those funds into expanding Medicaid and Medicare to make it a true health care support system.

It's not that we're self absorbed.. it's that we don't enjoy wasteful spending. It's not America's job to provide for those who are capable. This nation was founded on the mentality that everyone is capable to achieve great things. It was founded on the notion that THE PEOPLE make up the country and not the government.

I wish to stay true to our founding fathers vision.

I once was unable to, but I am able, that's why I'm going to work. I'm healthy, other people don't think so. It's a matter of opinion and I don't agree with their recommendation.
I can agree with reforming medicaid, which I think is a good median. There are many great things about private health insurance, but you have to maintain coverage for those that need it. However many rules need to be changed in order to not get people to lose coverage because of a pre-existing condition. It's not solely a monetary issue but a policy one as well. I can't see why you can't support more supplements to health care. I'm sure there's enough military money to cover it.

[daihashi]

I'm not sure if my wang is actually bigger than yours, but I am sure it is working harder. Much harder. Oh, yeah...

It may be that the ole Bongman wasn't reacting entirely to the message of OneIn1's post, and maybe was reacting partly to the tone. I know you made a point that not all conservatives are discomapssionate, but it's hard to argue that about someone who says things like:



That's maybe not the most compassionate tone I've heard.

I also found this one to be a bit over the top:

It doesn't change the fact that People here FREAK OUT when you say you don't believe in socialized healthcare.

I mean literally freak out and lash out and call you names. It's ridiculous that people make such assumptions based on something that was never said. It does not justify their actions or make it right and FRANKLY I'm tired of seeing members attacking people like this.

There are many times I want to tell people to get out of America if they don't like it. These people though are people who sit on their asses all day and complain about how they don't like the Right or the government but then don't try to do anything about it.

This is America and ALL of us have the opportunity to institute the change it is that we are seeking. When people constantly BASH our own country because they feel the Government isn't doing enough for them.... it's frustrating.

In my opinion unless you're willing to try to change what it is you don't like about this country, whether it's through supporting a politician you think holds the same values as you, voting on local legislation, trying to run for office yourself, being an advocate for a group or join an organization that is attempting to further your cause; unless you are willing to do something more than sit on your ass then I don't think people have the right to bash this nation of ours.

You are not entitled simply because you pay taxes. Being an American is more than that.

[flyingimam]

This is America and ALL of us have the opportunity to institute the change it is that we are seeking. When people constantly BASH our own country because they feel the Government isn't doing enough for them.... it's frustrating.

In my opinion unless you're willing to try to change what it is you don't like about this country, whether it's through supporting a politician you think holds the same values as you, voting on local legislation, trying to run for office yourself, being an advocate for a group or join an organization that is attempting to further your cause; unless you are willing to do something more than sit on your ass then I don't think people have the right to bash this nation of ours.

You are not entitled simply because you pay taxes. Being an American is more than that.

well said

but still i think people have the right to bitch!!! lol

[daihashi]

I completely agree with you on the welfare aspect. Programs like Section 8 housing is vastly corrupted, lots of abuse and waste goes on. But what the hell does it have to do with automatically covering health care for people who lost their jobs and lost their insurance coverage? Why should a few rotten apples spoil it for the many more people who can't? Why should people get racked up with enormous bills while they have to wait to see if they even get medicaid or not?

I definitely agree there's a lot of waste. However I believe there are far better solutions to fixing the system.

It has nothing to do with covering healthcare. If you read the paragraph correctly you would see that I was just ranting at how I'm tired of people lashing out and jumping the gun when another member says they don't support socialized health care.

The reason why it takes so long to get Medicaid and Medicare is in part to try to deter people who wish to just abuse the program. I am in agreement that it needs to be fixed/reformed HOWEVER I still am not for socializing the current healthcare system we have in place.

Over the last 20 years Employer based insurance has fallen from 70% to 61%. This seems to indicate a problem in the system and not something that needs to be enchanged entirely. I believe currently we have something like 18% of people without insurance. Are we going to punish 61% of Americans for the 18% of people who don't have insurance? Where is the logic in that? If it were close to a 50/50 ratio or even like a 60/40 ratio then it would make more sense.

If you don't believe it, I don't care, doesn't change anything. I'm just telling you how it is. If you don't want to believe it so be it.

Frankly I don't care. The point is that YOU don't know how hard other people work in comparison to you. It was a moot statement and honestly I found it pointless to mention. You could work harder than me (honestly you probably do) or you could not. Point being is I don't know and there's no point in verifying. I used the wang contest because it feels like the old cliche "my dick is bigger than yours".

Living is important to me, especially having decent health insurance that takes care of my health. I don't want to jeopardize my position. I would be dumb to.

So jeopardizing your life makes more sense? I understand your position but you seem to have your priorities out of place.

Living > Having a Home > Having a Job > Having Insurance.... Everything that you are trying to preserve in your life is dependant on you living but you chose to skip out on your MRI.

I am sincerely sorry to hear about your situation but your logic doesn't make sense to me.

Even if you don't believe it to be true, Another job CAN be found. You can't go out and GET another life.

Yeah, but I have no choice. What else can I do, gotta maintain coverage. If I lost my job and don't get a job after COBRA expires days in the case if I do get let go, I can kiss my insurability good bye. Pre-existing condition. People who aren't healthy don't have a clue of how messed up this system is, especially since I been treated . I'm in quite a good position in terms of coverage, so why ruin a good thing?

Oh god.. You're right.. I don't have a clue. I've only worked with people who are severely handicapped, have MS, Crohns, Gastroparesis, POTS and the list goes on and on. You're right I have no clue how you're being treated </sarcasm>.

Don't assume that no one knows what you're going through. That is actually arrogant to assume no one could understand unless you're sick.

Many employers who offer employer based insurance work under a blanket policy; which means that everyone is covered. I sold insurance for a short while in my life (I hated it.. I had a moral dilemna about it) So I do actually know something about it.

What do you think I am doing? I'm not the one relying on the government.

No, you're just complaining and lashing out at someone who NEVER SAID SICK PEOPLE WERE LOOKING FOR HAND OUTS.

You missed the point of my entire post that you lashed out on someone who simply felt that people should not get hand outs. My post was not even specifically about you but rather how this seems to be the going trend.

I am not cold.. I am not callous and I help many sick people in my day to day life. While no one here on this forum can attest to this personally there are a select few whom I talk to offline that have heard of some of my dealings.

Yet people like you, and another poster in another thread (who got his post deleted and I think perhaps banned) attacked me the exact same way. I've searched through the politics forum and find that quite frequently when this is brought up people always attack the person who says they don't want to help people looking for hand outs.

Guess what, Sick people.. the elderly.. the handicapped.. children.. There is a VERY HIGH probability that the posters that say they don't want to help support people looking for hand outs are not talking about the above demographics!!!

Like I said, calm down and get a grip. Not just you but any other sick person out there who thinks people are bashing them. I know first hand that no one wants to be sick. Like I said, I'm sort've surrounded by people with debilitating diseases.

My employer has been quite good to me during my illness and why should I change my job over....health care? I like my job. However company policy evolves, it's starting to signal a change of tune. You have to react and adapt to the reality.



I once was unable to, but I am able, that's why I'm going to work. I'm healthy, other people don't think so. It's a matter of opinion and I don't agree with their recommendation.
I can agree with reforming medicaid, which I think is a good median. There are many great things about private health insurance, but you have to maintain coverage for those that need it. However many rules need to be changed in order to not get people to lose coverage because of a pre-existing condition. It's not solely a monetary issue but a policy one as well. I can't see why you can't support more supplements to health care. I'm sure there's enough military money to cover it.[/QUOTE]

[daihashi]

grrrr.. I tried to go back and edit because I realized some of my posts/quotes didn't make it.. here it is

My employer has been quite good to me during my illness and why should I change my job over....health care? I like my job. However company policy evolves, it's starting to signal a change of tune. You have to react and adapt to the reality.

Good to you? They are going to fire you if yo uhave to go get an MRI. Your doctor is saying you should go to the ER. That sounds pretty damn important to me. If your employer doesn't understand that this is an essential need of yours then I'd have to argue that your Employer is not good to you.

I once was unable to, but I am able, that's why I'm going to work. I'm healthy, other people don't think so. It's a matter of opinion and I don't agree with their recommendation.

I agree, some people who are out there working totally shouldn't be. Just because you can doesn't mean that you should. Believe it or not I am sorry to hear about your situation.

I can agree with reforming medicaid, which I think is a good median. There are many great things about private health insurance, but you have to maintain coverage for those that need it. However many rules need to be changed in order to not get people to lose coverage because of a pre-existing condition. It's not solely a monetary issue but a policy one as well. I can't see why you can't support more supplements to health care. I'm sure there's enough military money to cover it.

Well there in lies the issue. I don't feel we need to take money from the military, I don't feel we need to tax companies more, I don't feel we need to raise any taxes. I feel that we need to cut wasteful spending.

If we removed the retirement portion of Social Security, put limitations on Welfare (meaning people can't stay on it their entire lives), basically if we shuffled money around from all these failed programs and built up Medicaid/Medicare then it could be a TRUELY GREAT system for individuals who truely need it.. such as yourself.

I feel a number of conservatives (I'm actually not conservative but pragmatic who leans slightly to the right) would probably agree with me to some degree.

Again THCbongman.. I understand all too well. I've been in the hospital way too many times to not empathize with you; it's that, I feel, there are better ways to fix this problem.