The Standard of Morality

[angeltyreal]

This is a topic I hope everyone can relate. If you are reading this message then you are a conscious human being with the ability to make value judgments.

I was hoping to just get into the minds of all you thinkers out there and how you have come to determine what is good or bad. Basically, everyone has a philosophy - If you decide to rape women and rob banks you still have a philosophy. Obviously this code of ethics is irrational and ultimately leads to some form of suicide; mentally or physically.

How have you come to conclude right from wrong? Jesus, God, Law, TV, yourself?

I could go on for days with this but lets start here...

Hey, I understand your interest in the subject, I've actually studied and written a paper on individual ethics. I don't mean to be rude, but your first post shows a little what you believe as good. That over there in bold shows you don't really approve of raping women and robbing banks. Truly these things don't tend to lead to suicide, and the few suicides there are of these people are usually because of the large amount of stress society puts on the person because everyone thinks its "wrong". Although I also believe it is wrong, and I am sure many other people do, it still doesn't make it right, always take it with a grain of salt. Everyone is just a product of their youth. We have seen in 30 year studies that people tend act based on their genes as a sort of 60% factor, and upbringing is 40%.

[GreenDestiny]

The majority usually creates the system of rules we all must abide by, but it can't always guarantee that those rules are just. But in a dictatorship or similar system, it's a very small group that gets to decide for all the people.... and dictatorships usually don't work too well.

But what I believe is that it's ultimately the individual's choice to decide what is right or wrong. The concept of morality is totally relative to each individual, so really there is no definite right or wrong; it only matters what works best for each single person.

Right and wrong becomes defined once enough individuals agree with each other to make up the majority of the population. Once they have the power to control, they do it, and vote to form laws and punishments based on their similar morals. The minority then has to conform to the mandated moral codes or else face possible punishments for acts that conflict with the majority's rule.


It seems we have infinitesimal punishments for what we might do wrong... but very few special rewards for when we conform to the morals of the majority and do what is right. That's defnitely not a good system to model when raising children, so why use it as a form of government? We need less negative reinforcement and more positive reinforcement in this backwards world that's dominated by overbearing judgemental religious fanatics. Waiting for Heaven is not enough, we need some damned incentives that work now while we're still alive.


It's very trippy to contemplate things like this and then wonder what it'd be like to experience reality as another animal that governs it's life primarily on basic survival instincts.... no complex emotions.

[colour]

That over there in bold shows you don't really approve of raping women and robbing banks. Truly these things don't tend to lead to suicide

thanks for stopping in. but, i think you misunderstood me. 'suicide' was used loosely and was a bit extreme. 'suicide' by voluntarily denying reason and going with your animal-like whims. much like a rapist....i wasn't really referring to them any more than that..

Green Destiny.
Right and wrong becomes defined once enough individuals agree with each other to make up the majority of the population. Once they have the power to control, they do it, and vote to form laws and punishments based on their similar morals. The minority then has to conform to the mandated moral codes or else face possible punishments for acts that conflict with the majority's rule.

Ok. Let me use this example: Gay marriage. It is outlawed in many states. Gays in Ca were just recently given the privilege of same-sex marriage. How can you morally justify a group of people voting away an individuals right to life and its derivatives? Another example is cannabis use. Do you feel it is morally right for the majority to decide if we can smoke it?

This is the type of morality I am getting to here. Regardless of what it is, its right only if backed by proper moral standard.

[GreenDestiny]

Too bad there's no ultimate referee or judge to tell us all what shall be right and wrong, unless you believe in a deity. Either way, just because we're alive and can contemplate these things doesn't justify our reasons to decide the moral codes for everyone. We just make it all up as we go along, just whatever works to our advantages. Stuff happens, results are produced. Based on our emotional responses we label the actions and results as right or wrong. It also depends on which decision gives the best result for selfish reasons.

Despite what's really right or wrong, people will always push for the judgement that benefits them the most.... or are coerced by ignorance/fear/religion into following another's moral code.

I think it's totally wrong for anyone to force their morals on other people, no matter how good or right it may seem. What's right for one may be wrong for another. That's why I believe there is no right or wrong and it's the popular opinion that rules. I couldn't give the slightest crap about what the majority thinks. For me to be happy it only matters how I think and feel. Making others feel good is just a bonus, but not a requirement. And I do as much as I can to not hurt anyone.

Religious extremists will morally justify anything they do because they claim a divine creator has commanded them to follow the rules or else they'll be punished... and they'll twist logic around to justify their actions as the will of their creator.


It seems that just living harmoniously, or sybiotically with nature is the only right thing to do. The respect and preservation of all life. But when someone decides to do something extremely selfish or violent... ah, what do we do? MUST we do anything at all?

[TurnyBright]

asd

[llamapunch]

consciousness is a symptom of spirit (spirit/soul)

right and wrong = good and bad

good can't be defined so easily because I think we only see small parts of the "good" as it exists in separate things we call good. But what thing makes all good things good?

man does no wrong knowingly

[colour]

man does no wrong knowingly

so when one man steals from another he doesn't know its wrong?

[GreenDestiny]

Is it wrong for an atom to steal an electron from another atom? Or to steal a whole atom to bond with to give itself a better existence as a molecule? There's no concept of good and bad in the world of atoms.

We're just a collection of atoms. So is it really wrong for us to steal something else that's just a collection of atoms too?


But, yes, we seem to have free will to choose. Like choosing not to acknowledge posessive ownership of matter. We have no more control over the individual atoms in our bodies than we do for the actions of every person. Chaos is the motivation for bringing order to things. There will always be chaos and perfect order is never attainable. It's an ongoing, changing, evolving struggle. Unless you consider chaos itself to be the perfect order of things...

There's no right or wrong, good or bad; there's only the current -selfish- opinions of what can be observed at each moment by a complex hierarchy of atoms (us) that can contemplate such things.

And my opinion isn't right or wrong. It's just an opinion. Nothing more. <---And that's an opinion too.. <---And that... See it never ends. (oops, another opinion). It's my opinion that it's an opinion. hahahah. At what point does an opinion become fact? How can something abstract like morality be solidly proven beyond any doubt to be factual?

[TurnyBright]

â??Thieves respect property. They merely wish the property to become their property that they may more perfectly respect it.â?� -G.K. Chesterton

That sounds like a rightness to me.

[angeltyreal]

man does no wrong knowingly

I wish I could believe that one, there are many people that willingly and knowingly do wrong.

[QUOTE][Is it wrong for an atom to steal an electron from another atom? Or to steal a whole atom to bond with to give itself a better existence as a molecule? There's no concept of good and bad in the world of atoms./QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure if I were an atom, and another atom stole one of my electrons, I would be pretty pissed.

But, yes, we seem to have free will to choose. Like choosing not to acknowledge posessive ownership of matter. We have no more control over the individual atoms in our bodies than we do for the actions of every person. Chaos is the motivation for bringing order to things. There will always be chaos and perfect order is never attainable. It's an ongoing, changing, evolving struggle. Unless you consider chaos itself to be the perfect order of things...

I like the way that you think and express your thoughts. I like to think a bit differently in that there will always be chaos, but there, in that chaos, we obtain perfection. As our world is completely controlled by chaos, corrupt leaders, illness everywhere, everyone living without thinking of sustainablity, the natural world seems to be growing to try and adapt to it. There have been new species of birds and other mammals that have appeared near manufacturing plants that actually breath carbon monoxide. Just a little peice of the perfection the world, and probably many other worlds out there, have to offer amidst the chaos.

There's no right or wrong, good or bad; there's only the current -selfish- opinions of what can be observed at each moment by a complex hierarchy of atoms (us) that can contemplate such things.

And my opinion isn't right or wrong. It's just an opinion. Nothing more. <---And that's an opinion too.. <---And that... See it never ends. (oops, another opinion). It's my opinion that it's an opinion. hahahah. At what point does an opinion become fact? How can something abstract like morality be solidly proven beyond any doubt to be factual?

Also, you are right here, there is really no true good and evil, only positive and negative. Good and evil seem to be our spiritual and in some cases "physical" manifestations of positive and negative. Someone steals your purse? Negative interaction. Since you may have liked the purse and are attached to it, you dub it as evil. And so on.