Quote Originally Posted by psychocat
Nato and the UN are hardly likely to find in favour of any country that does not bend to it's will or recognise thier supposed right to tell other countries what they can and cannot do.
They are both examples of my gang is bigger than your gang so you have to do what we say.
They are both also very heavily influenced by the vested interests of thier member states , including thier financial and military supremacy.
Very much so, and this is precisely the reason I call the UN a joke. It is very much biased and skewed to support large nations influences on smaller ones. Furthermore no Nation should have Veto Power. If any nation with veto power has a vested interest in what's going on (ie: like Russia does with Georgia) than any resolution brought to the table can be expected to be vetoed.

The UN is even more flawed than the US government in the way it is setup.


Even if you allow for the fantasy that the INVASION of Iraq was a continuation of the gulf war that still does not explain Afghanistan.
So the fact that The Taliban was harboring a Terrorist group, Al Queda, was not justification enough for us to go in there? I mean Al Qaeda did claim responsibility for 9/11. Let's not forget either that even though no WMD's were found; there is evidence linking Iraq to Al Qaeda and terrorist activities. While that does not justify our invasion it does show that our "fantasy" is a bit more than just a "fantasy" as you describe.

The situation in Georgia was started by Georgia and the west is guilty of the worst double standards , anyone remember the reason for the first invasion of the gulf state Iraq ?
That's right , Iraq attempted to reclaim something (Kuwait) that once belonged to thier country and the west attacked with maximum prejudice.
you're partially right but mostly wrong. The war was really about money. Iraq was broke as hell after a 10 year war with Iran. Here is an excerpt from wikipedia summarizing the tensions that led to the conflict. I normally don't source wikipedia however this is just a summary of the situation prior to the first gulf war breaking out

When the ceasefire with Iran was signed in August 1988, Iraq was virtually bankrupt and heavily indebted to Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. Those two nations had funded Iraq due to shared antagonism towards the Iranian regime. Iraq's economy was further damaged when the following year, in open defiance of OPEC quotas, Kuwait increased its oil production by 40 percent. The collapse in oil prices had a catastrophic impact on the Iraqi economy. The Iraqi government described it as a form of economic warfare, which it claimed was aggravated by Kuwait slant-drilling across the border into Iraq's Rumaila oil field. [13]

Kuwait had been part of the Ottoman province of Basra, and although its ruling dynasty, the al-Sabah family, had concluded a protectorate agreement in 1899 that assigned responsibility for its foreign affairs to Britain, it did not make any attempt to secede from the Ottoman Empire. For this reason, Iraqi governments had always refused to accept Kuwait's separation, and its borders were never clearly defined or mutually agreed.[citation needed] The British High Commissioner drew lines that deliberately constricted Iraq's access to the ocean so that any future Iraqi government would be in no position to threaten Britain's domination of the Persian Gulf.

Don't paint Iraq to be so innocent. It's not like Kuwait recently succeeded from Iraq or what not; it had been nearly a century. Georgia and Ossetia have only recently split in the last 15 years or so. During which tensions have been on the rise and a pseudo idle war/cold war has taken place. It's not like they just forgot about each other.

Now that Russia is attempting to deter Georgia from "reclaiming" Ossetia the west is saying "don't do as we do , do as we say"!
Show me a nation that is innocent of this? It certainly isn't your country or any of the other nations that have played any signifigance in the world over the last century or so. It does not make anything right but you choose to isolate 1 nation and berate them while disregarding the rest. If you choose to chastise the United States (even though Russia is the one who was a bit over zealous in their attack) for telling Russia to stop simply because it contradicts what we've done in the past.. then you must equally hold all nations in disdain.