Heavy fighting in South Ossetia

[RobPA]

i guess if us is allowed to have missles near russia then russia should be allowed to station missles in cuba and south america. what was the whole cuban missle crisis about. russian equipment on our borders and they took it away. now we do it to them.

if the missles are installed in eu it will be against the national security of russia and give them legal reason to attack(since were not legally allowed to have missles stationed within 3500 miles of their border). but if they do get installed we will have russian nuke bombers on our borders through cuba. which is already in place, and most likely in venesuala.



if we are so scared of getting nuked by 1 missle on the other side of the world i guess the trillions of dollars and over 50 yrs of defense systems put up all over the world. were a waste of money to american taxpayers. because your system doesnt work

I find a couple of your statements to be a little ridiculous. Bombers and nukes comming from Cuba?? They would be shotdown by our airforce and navy before they even got off the ground. Those billions a year that go into spy satellite and etc technology at least has some positives. The Missles will get installed and if Poland wants to allow it it is there Sovereign right to have them and make that decision. If its in Russias rights to attack one of our bases or militarily installations (we are also building a large military base in Poland, which is part of the deal) as you said, Then I say good luck to all of us, because WW3 has just begun if the situation occurs. Russia does have 1.1million soldiers but it dosent have near the support or financial ability that we would have if a war such as that broke out. Theres nothing like Americans if you kill our people or piss us off. This would be a totally diferant situation then Iraq, and I think would have much more support if Russia were to attack any of our bases.

[psychocat]

America and the west should be keeping it's nose out of business that does not concern it.
How can Britain and America invade two countries under a lie and then pretend to have the moral highground ?
Russia is defending Ossetia from an agressor in the shape of Georgia , how is it defending democracy to force tOssetia to re-unite with a country they don't want to ?
America should concentrate on defending it's own borders instead of trying to tell everyone else what they can or cannot do.
Placing weapons on Russias doorstep is no different than Russia placing them in Cuba.

[texas grass]

I find a couple of your statements to be a little ridiculous. Bombers and nukes comming from Cuba?? They would be shotdown by our airforce and navy before they even got off the ground. Those billions a year that go into spy satellite and etc technology at least has some positives. The Missles will get installed and if Poland wants to allow it it is there Sovereign right to have them and make that decision. If its in Russias rights to attack one of our bases or militarily installations (we are also building a large military base in Poland, which is part of the deal) as you said, Then I say good luck to all of us, because WW3 has just begun if the situation occurs. Russia does have 1.1million soldiers but it dosent have near the support or financial ability that we would have if a war such as that broke out. Theres nothing like Americans if you kill our people or piss us off. This would be a totally diferant situation then Iraq, and I think would have much more support if Russia were to attack any of our bases.

my whole point was we are breaking a international treaty with russia by putting military instilations within 3500 miles of their border which is illegal. but its also illegal for them to do the same. if we do it first it gives them "legal right" to defend their national security.
im not for nuke bombers on our doorstep,

[apocolips31]

Last time I checked Poland was a sovereign nation with the right to have defenses.

[texas grass]

Last time I checked Poland was a sovereign nation with the right to have defenses.

then why are we talking about bombing iran, and why did we bomb iraq, nigaragwa, panama, ect. if they didnt attack us and they are sovereign nations. isnt that illegal on what we did.


and its ok to break international treatys

and georgia killed civillians in a civillian capital with american planes and tanks against a population that has no defenses. if anything we should go attack georgia for attacking defensless civillians.

[apocolips31]

While I regret the loss on both sides, Georgia has a right to take back what is theirs. Putting up defensive missiles in no where near the same as USA invading Iraq. Just wondering why you brought that up? Sense you did I think that it was wrong of us to invade Iraq but, sense we are already their and have created trouble we should clean up our mess. Back to the issue with Poland. Poland has a right to protect it's self and put up as many defensive weapons as they want. Or do you think that Poland should just roll over as Russia says and leave them self's at a disadvantage? I would see their reason for concern if we were setting up nukes their or maybe a 1000 misses but, just 10? What would that do to Russia with all their capabilities? The missile defense was obviously put there to stop an enemy with a lot less capabilities then a country as strong militarily as Russia.

[psychocat]

While I regret the loss on both sides, Georgia has a right to take back what is theirs.

Then by that logic the American Indians should take back America and Mexico should reclaim Texas.

Putting up defensive missiles in no where near the same as USA invading Iraq. Just wondering why you brought that up?

That is the single most obvious oxymororn.
There is no such thing as a defensive missile they are all designed to be as offensive as possible placing them in Poland breaks so many agreements and is antagonistic at the very least and downright illegal at worst.
The reason for bringing up Iraq is to show how inept the leaders of the western world are and how they lied to achieve thier own ends.

Sense you did I think that it was wrong of us to invade Iraq but, sense we are already their and have created trouble we should clean up our mess. Back to the issue with Poland. Poland has a right to protect it's self and put up as many defensive weapons as they want. Or do you think that Poland should just roll over as Russia says and leave them self's at a disadvantage?

That isn't what is being proposed, if you said they should be able to purchase the weapons I would say fine but that is not the case.
America wants a military base in Poland and I can fully understand that Russia objects in much the same way America had objections to Cuba back in the early sixties.

I would see their reason for concern if we were setting up nukes their or maybe a 1000 misses but, just 10? What would that do to Russia with all their capabilities? The missile defense was obviously put there to stop an enemy with a lot less capabilities then a country as strong militarily as Russia.

The American goverment is placing military forces where no Americans have a right to be , the reason for Iraq is to place American military in the middle east and this is simply an excuse to spread into the east of Europe.

You really do need to understand that I am never fooled by the US rhetoric and bullshit.

[daihashi]

Then by that logic the American Indians should take back America and Mexico should reclaim Texas.

Well the American Indians never had a sovereign nation. I do not claim that it is right, but it's a bit different than the situation we see today. Also the fact that we took the land from the Indians from 1492 on forward. Ossetia declared it's independance back in the 1990s. So it is very recent.

South Ossetia's independance has not been recognized by any of the members of the United Nations. Therefore if the rest of the world doesn't recognize Ossetia then why shouldn't Georgia have the right to try to reunite their nation?

That is the single most obvious oxymororn.
There is no such thing as a defensive missile they are all designed to be as offensive as possible placing them in Poland breaks so many agreements and is antagonistic at the very least and downright illegal at worst.

uhhh what era have you been living in? Defense missiles have been around forever. They specifically shoot down other missiles.

Missile defense is an air defense system, weapon, or technology involved in the detection, tracking, interception and destruction of attacking missiles. Originally conceived as a defence against nuclear-armed ICBMs, its application has broadened to include shorter-ranged non-nuclear tactical and theater missiles.

The interception technology used has varied over time. In the 1960s, missile defense against ICBMs emphasized nuclear warheads. In recent decades non-nuclear kinetic warheads have been used. Directed-energy weapons such as lasers have been investigated and deployed on a limited basis.

The US, Russia, France, Israel and India have all developed such air defence systems.[1] In the United States, missile defense was originally the responsibility of the Army, but in recent years the Navy and Air Force have developed their own systems.
That isn't what is being proposed, if you said they should be able to purchase the weapons I would say fine but that is not the case.
America wants a military base in Poland and I can fully understand that Russia objects in much the same way America had objections to Cuba back in the early sixties.

The reason for bringing up Iraq is to show how inept the leaders of the western world are and how they lied to achieve thier own ends.

It's still irrelevant to the topic at hand. You're giving Russia a free pass. I will admit that Ossetia instigated the situation but Russia is going above and beyond what was needed. Also there was no formal declaration of war or even any warning. It was a surprise that happened while everyone was attending the olympics.

Iraq had been being warned and sanctions thrown on them since the first Iraq War in the 90's. I strongly believe we should not have been in Iraq but to compare this to our relationship with Iraq is very far fetched. Iraq knew we were coming for quite some time.

The American goverment is placing military forces where no Americans have a right to be , the reason for Iraq is to place American military in the middle east and this is simply an excuse to spread into the east of Europe.

You really do need to understand that I am never fooled by the US rhetoric and bullshit.

Where we have no rights to be? So after WWII we had no rights to occupy Axis countries to ensure there was no further uprising or more war? After Iraq we had no right to occupy to ensure that their new government would succeed?

Honestly by your rationale other countries such as England and Spain are the worst. They pretty much wrote the book on occupying other countries.

[texas grass]

Well the American Indians never had a sovereign nation. I do not claim that it is right, but it's a bit different than the situation we see today. Also the fact that we took the land from the Indians from 1492 on forward. Ossetia declared it's independance back in the 1990s. So it is very recent.

South Ossetia's independance has not been recognized by any of the members of the United Nations. Therefore if the rest of the world doesn't recognize Ossetia then why shouldn't Georgia have the right to try to reunite their nation?

the american indians never had a sovereign nation. what a load of crap. america was their sovereign land.

georgia gained independance from russia in like 91, ossetia declared theirs in 92. why does georgia have the right to keep people they dont want.

of course the same people want to split iraq into 3 sections too.

if we declared kosovo independant why cant ossetia be independant? russia said that would bite us in the ass and look now. we are always so quick to break up other nations but when it comes to our allies its not allowed"its illegal to do that in todays times"

[RobPA]

the american indians never had a sovereign nation. what a load of crap. america was their sovereign land.

georgia gained independance from russia in like 91, ossetia declared theirs in 92. why does georgia have the right to keep people they dont want.

of course the same people want to split iraq into 3 sections too.

if we declared kosovo independant why cant ossetia be independant? russia said that would bite us in the ass and look now. we are always so quick to break up other nations but when it comes to our allies its not allowed"its illegal to do that in todays times"

WAs it? Then how do you explain Tribe Vs. Tribe warfare?? Are we to go back that far in history? They were killing each other over here even before we came, im not justifying what other countries did to the indians but its just the way it worked out.To Psychocat: Im sorry but all your statements are just screaming uninformed liberal, especially with the statement about "No Defensive Missles" I LOL'd at that one, looks like you are from the UK, has your country not followed us and assisted us in all the wars above? How about we go back and look at some of the atrocities YOUR country has done? Massacreing scots? The Irish? Germania ? I dont wanna get to far off topic here but you see my point. If your gonna bag on american Rhetoric, take a look at where your country stands, right next to us. Go Labour Party! :jointsmile::thumbsup: