Quote Originally Posted by LegalizeTheGreen
Diahashi, I do not troll, it is you that decided to attack Obama, and I decided to defend him. If you had said McCain is psycho from POW camp and is an insane liberal (or conservative) douchebag, I still would have told you that you were out of line. I am a moderate, and above all I would like to see a fair representation of both candidates. You didn't give this, so I pointed it out and said the obvious bias made me sick.
for someone who is talking about fair representation of both candidates you sure seem to be bashing one of them and the support that he has.

For a moderate you sure are flying off the handle fairly easily. Again I bring to you the question.. Why are you not going into the Obama threads and defending him. Telling people how you are disgusted with their bashing of the republican candidate?

You obviously chose this thread to participate in and to come to Obama's aide, giving him a free pass of what you accuse McCain of doing.

You obviously don't grasp Hypocricy or irony, so let me spell it out for you, ok? McCain and Obama both change their views, but instead of calling it flip flopping and attacking them, I point out that BOTH OF THEM ARE DOING THIS. What sickens me is that you, in your righteous hypocricy, ignore McCains flip-flopping (god I hate that word) and verbally lynch Obama when he does the same thing. Both of them are politicians, and both of them sway with whatever breeze is currently blowing, but to target one and say he is a spinless liberal, while ignoring McCains identical tactics (flipflopping, *shudder*) is the epitome of stupidity, so I pointed this out.
I have a firm grasp on hypocrisy and irony. The question is do you? Because Hypocrisy and Irony are two seperate things. Hypocrisy is the fact that you say it's ok for Obama to do one thing but then chastise McCain or his supporters for doing the same thing. That sir is hypocrisy. You did not point out that both of them are doing this. You only pointed your finger in the direction of McCain and his supporters.

I've never denied McCain was using political strategy. This is an election and it would be ridiculous to think otherwise. I agree that they are both politicians and they both are going to say whatever it takes to win.

My problem is that you portrayed Obama as being innocent. That the McCain supporters have no reason to criticize Obama. However, again, you do not go into the Obama threads to go defend McCain. For someone who says they are for fair representation you sure seem to be traveling down a one way street.

You are insane though if you think I would spend my time defending a republican, especally when you and P4B are doing such a great job of that. I defend Obama because I like him, but my dislike of McCain doesn't blind me like you are implying. If you think I am a hypocrite for not defending McCain, does that mean you defend Obama? If so, you are doing one hell of a job, rofl.
Ahh.. so the truth comes out. I'm insane to think that you would spend your time defending a republican. So I guess it's safe to say that you are definitely biased toward Obama. For someone who claims to want fair representation and then points the finger at McCain and his supporters it sure sounds contradictory to what you've been saying all this time.

And yes, I have defended Obama on the RARE occassion. I believe in fact not opinion or speculation. I believe P4B can attest to this. He may have seen 1-2 of my posts where I defended Obama. I've even said very recently that I anticipate that Obama will most likely win the election.

Sorry to disappoint you on that front.

As for Obama and his "180", I cant help but laugh, because while his views might have changed (like a typical politician I might add, same as McCain), he is still fighting for democrats, and if he did a 180 he would be a republican. I would say he did maybe a 45, but as long as he represents the intrests of democrats, and fights republicans, I can forgive him a little meandering and pandering.
What exactly is he fighting for? And tell me why have his interests suddenly reversed from what his voting record indicates? Does this not bother you at all? Even though McCain has made a move toward the center.. most of what he has said has been fairly consistent withhis voting record. Sorry I don't like feeling as though I'm being lied to, with Obama's voting record in contrast to what he says... it feels like the man is lying to me. Straight up, no questions about it.

It's funny you should say fights the interest of democrats because for the last 8 years Dems have typically been supportive of Bush. It is only around 2007 that the entire democratic party had made a shift to distinguish themselves from the republican party.

Now let me ask you this.. How can you trust a party that has been going along with Bush this entire time.. and then 6 years into his presidency they suddenly change gears... What a coincidence with the presidential election year coming up. But I suppose you don't see it that way, you see it as the Democrats having a change of heart.

Face it... the Dems are not the saints you paint them out to be.

And finally, yes, I am aware we are in Iraq, but to assume there is nothing we can do about it is just dumb. My "solution" is to elect a man that wants to get us out of there, hopefully by 09. My solution offers a casuality free enviroment for our troops, and a self governing Iraq. What does yours offer?
I said there is nothing we can do about the fact that we are in Iraq. I never said there was no way out. Please outline for me how Obama's plan will offer a casuality free enviorment for our troops and for Iraq. Furthermore tell me how your plan will ensure the safety of the Iraqi people and their Government once we're gone.

Look at what happened to afghanistan after we left it. Or here is a better example. Look at Afghanistan in the late 70's after Russia left. It fell apart and into the hands of the Taliban... and later it became a safehaven for Al Queda.

Leaving a job half done and not ensuring stability in that region will do nothing but undermine what our troops have been over there for to begin with. While I can strongly say I never agreed with the US going into Iraq... I can also strongly say that we have a moral obligation to ensure that nation succeeds. Pulling out now would be a waste of all of our tax dollars and American lives that have been put out into Iraq.

I don't want my fellow Americans to have died for nothing. Perhaps that's a sentiment we don't share?


Also, Ralph, ignore Diahashis comments, opinion has plenty of room in a debate, especially since we have seen how valid "facts" are *Cough BUSHLIEDABOUTFACTS Cough*. He is so biased that he ignored the facts you presented too, a la "In January, the surge was a Fail. Straight out bad move. Only three of the 18 benchmarks had been met". I didn't even detect a harsh tone from you, only one of disapointment in our leaders and those that continue to follow their flawwed policies. I agree with you, and hope to see more posts from you, maybe then Diahashi will simmer down

Have a good one! :s4:
Debating is one thing, but your posts have no substance.. no backing to your claims and is just opinion. While opinion is perfectly acceptable you truely shouldn't act like you're above it all... especially when you're left back peddling now to try to cover yourself.... in which you've contradicted yourself a few times now.

Fact not fiction..
daihashi Reviewed by daihashi on . Obama Web site removes `surge' from Iraq problem Barack Obama's aides have removed criticism of President Bush's increase of troops to Iraq from the campaign Web site, part of an effort to update the Democrat's written war plan to reflect changing conditions. Debate over the impact of President Bush's troop "surge" has been at the center of exchanges this week between Obama and Republican presidential rival John McCain. Obama opposed the war and the surge from the start, while McCain supported both the invasion and the troop increase. A Rating: 5