Guard dog training from puppyhood?

[Chronic Chrissy]

no one would dare to rob you if you had a dog like this..

or maybe the second one might be better.. Hes got his brown eye on you..

Hahahaha...

Anyways We seem to be experiencing a little puppy regression. He's starting to get way more interested in playing and toys. He used to quickly lock in on us and come running when we called "come", but now he's more easily distracted. H thinks I'm not doing it right I'm trying to tell him in the long run I am. He thinks that if the dog doesn't come I should go get him. But I think that would quickly turn into a game of chase. I figure that I keep calling him and encouraging him to come to me, and when he does even if it takes a little bit longer than it should I Praise him and pet him, in hope that he always connects the word come with a postive feeling that he wants. H thinks I should give him shit when he finally gets there, but when I think like a dog, that would just teach me to not like reponding, or thinking I was doing something wrong. Anyways he is just under 4 months I figure it is just a puppy phase we have to work through.

If a dog only needed one command I would say "come" would be it, ultimately to me this is the one most important commands I can communicate and when he is older I want immediate reponse. Everything else is important too, but I need him to know "come" like a Pro.

[illnillinois]

find a trainer that can teach him to be aggressive when the Master commands it.. Not sure if that breed of dog is going to be.. also keep in mind teaching it commands in another language, great for not allowing the attacker to call off the attack..

[Jerry Garcia 2007]

Your correct in your reasoning.

Keep in mind at four months you are dealing with a 3 year old in human terms. When training and the dog is distracted you need to get its attention using a toy or some noise maker, a clicker works great for this and can be used to teach it basic commands.

JG

[Weedhound]

That's true.....if he doens't come you need to go get him....and if it turns into a game of chase then your dog is untrained. Letting him decide when he feels like following your commands (in a minute Mom.....I'm busy......) is NOT training. In fact....it's the opposite. The idea of training is for the dog to accept your word......right now and to respond immediately and not the fourth, fifth etc time you call him or give him a command or really pretty much whenever he feels like it.

If your 3 year old child acted the same way ( yeah i'm coming.....eventually...maybe......) would you have him out anywhere around danger....say the street or something? Of course not.....because you know he doesn't listen to your reliably and can't be trusted. Why is your pup any different?

Also NEVER call your dog to you and then punish him. Can you say ridiculous oxymoron???!!! :wtf:

Consider some good puppy classes.....trust me.....dogs DONT think like people REGARDLESS of how many people think they do. Learn how your dog think and you'll be home free.

Good luck.

[stinkyattic]

Practice the 'come' command on a really long, LIGHTWEIGHT lead like a thin minimal-stretch nylon cord with a carabiner on the end. The point is to make the dog forget you are holding his leash. Let him wander off, with NO tension on the leash, then say his name and 'COME' in yoru command voice. He won't get it at first, so give the lead a slight tug towards you until he is at your feet, saying 'COME' while you do it. When he gets to you, praise him a lot and give him a treat (retrievers + food= : D). Repeat many times, until the dog comes without any tension on the leash. Then practice!

Eventually you won't need a treat; in fact only use treats for the INITIAL reinforcement so that he does not come to expect them. My friend made a huge mistake training her lab by ALWAYS having treats, even after the behaviour was already understood and learned. Now she has a stubborn dog that will only work for food, and it's taking a long time to get her out of that mindset.

[Chronic Chrissy]

We live pretty off the grid so puppy classes aren't really an option. As for the "come issue" he never takes off right out of sight or runs and doesn't stop. I'd say about 50 ft is as far as he's gotten and I've never really had to spend more than 3-4 minute before he comes back.

New issue though. Tucker has been going to the neighbors. At first it was occasional but they would pet him and play with him then call me and say he was over there, usually after taking him into the house and playing with the kids. I told them to stop it and if he goes over there to give him shit and shoo him back. I also told them that if they want to do that now then they better expect a full grown dog to think that their yard is his yard in the future. So I go over there today and see my puppy poo by their driveway. When I asked them about it they said he was in their yard all morning( I was making play doh with my daughter and he whined to go out, I had doh on the stove and sticky hands so I didn't tie him). Why they couldn't yell at him out the door I dson't know.

The goal is to have him stay in the yard without having to be tied, but he will be if need be. I've had alot of people tell me taht if we tie him all the time now he'll most likely take off every time we let him off. So I guess what I'm asking next is how to teach him the boundries of the yard and unteach what he learnt from the neighbors. They come over with their kids some times, should I not let them play with him or see him at all?

We both have 100 foot wide lots and our houses are about 35 ft from ours there is a definate tree line between our houses of spuce trees. He sometimes hides in the shade under them or plays with his toys but there are lots of other places for him to do this. Should the trees themselves on that side be off limits to create a buffer?

Thanks guys, I'd just rather get this all started now while he is young instead of undoing everything when he is older.

[Weedhound]

Get a fence or plan on spending the next three weeks sitting outside with him like glue.

And dont' bother blaming the neighbors for your wandering dog young lady.

You sound like an owner who hasn't heard the dollar theory so I offer it now. Dogs live and die by the dollar theory so its something you need to strongly consider in training.

The key to training is consistency No excuses...no being "too busy" no blaming others......every single time you want a certain response from the dog you had better be prepared to make that response happen. THATS dog training.

There are three scenarios to the dollar theory.

1. I ask to borrow a dollar from you. You loan me one. Next time I need a dollar I will CERTAINLY come to you and ask again.

2. I ask to borrow a dollar. You say no. I try several times but always get the same answer....no. Afer a few tries I stop asking you because I'm not getting what I want.

3. I ask to borrow a dollar. You loan me one.....SOMETIMES. (you know.....extenuating circumstances like play doh and such......). If sometimes you loan me one and sometimes you don't.......am I or am I NOT going to repeat the same behavior and see if I can get what I want. What do YOU think??

And along that same line.......once certain behavior is learned it a LOT HARDER to untrain so every single time you vary your response in training you are STILL teaching your dog something whether you think you are or not.

In other words.....take the time to do it right the first four or five times rather than spending countless HOURS undoing bad habits. Two or three times is ALL IT TAKES for a smart dog or pup to figure out something that works for them and to remember it for future use.

[stinkyattic]

Don't let him out to poop off leash yet. Every time he needs to go out, he's got to be leashed, and walk him around the perimiter of HIS yard and let him mark HIS territory. Don't let him past where you want him to think is HIS.

Establishing territory boundaries is part of training a new dog. It's easier when the breed is already territorial- my old Boxer x was VERY easy and it only took a couple weeks of leashed pooping before she figured it out. Same goes for the road- it's NOT his territory and you should scold him if he tries to go into the street without YOUR permission.

[Chronic Chrissy]

Get a fence or plan on spending the next three weeks sitting outside with him like glue.

And dont' bother blaming the neighbors for your wandering dog young lady.

You sound like an owner who hasn't heard the dollar theory so I offer it now. Dogs live and die by the dollar theory so its something you need to strongly consider in training.

The key to training is consistency No excuses...no being "too busy" no blaming others......every single time you want a certain response from the dog you had better be prepared to make that response happen. THATS dog training.

There are three scenarios to the dollar theory.

1. I ask to borrow a dollar from you. You loan me one. Next time I need a dollar I will CERTAINLY come to you and ask again.

2. I ask to borrow a dollar. You say no. I try several times but always get the same answer....no. Afer a few tries I stop asking you because I'm not getting what I want.

3. I ask to borrow a dollar. You loan me one.....SOMETIMES. (you know.....extenuating circumstances like play doh and such......). If sometimes you loan me one and sometimes you don't.......am I or am I NOT going to repeat the same behavior and see if I can get what I want. What do YOU think??

And along that same line.......once certain behavior is learned it a LOT HARDER to untrain so every single time you vary your response in training you are STILL teaching your dog something whether you think you are or not.

In other words.....take the time to do it right the first four or five times rather than spending countless HOURS undoing bad habits. Two or three times is ALL IT TAKES for a smart dog or pup to figure out something that works for them and to remember it for future use.

Everything here makes sense and is not new to me. I understand and practise consistancy about 95% of the time and make sure every one else does too. If you tell him to do something you better be prepared to follow through and make him do what you want(my husband hates this rule).

I know at this point I am justifying my excuse for my wandering dog but these are the only neighbors of all 4 sides all sides that I have this issue with. He knows his lines on every other side including the road, and knows he is not to cross them and always looks to us to retrieve what he is wanting(depending on what it is he may get it, the ball I threw too far, yes. The cat that is allowed to leave the yard, no. And the cat goes to the other naeighbors not this ones so she is not the bad influence.). Even the neighbors across the street who walk their dog by everyday. They came into the yard if they want to say hello then when they leave Tucker sits about 20 feet from the road on our driveway and dances as they leave but never follows.(I watch him every morning at this time like clockwork).

He's finally made the connection that when he whines he goes outside and and that is where he is supposed to go, not on the floor. But I have made the connection that he is a puppy with a small bladder, and if I don't let him out I get a nice steamy present that he is trying to hold in, but even as he runs it just leaves a trail of turds.

But you are right I shouldn't be making excuses.
So how do I fix this now before it developes more?

[Chronic Chrissy]

Don't let him out to poop off leash yet. Every time he needs to go out, he's got to be leashed, and walk him around the perimiter of HIS yard and let him mark HIS territory. Don't let him past where you want him to think is HIS.

Establishing territory boundaries is part of training a new dog. It's easier when the breed is already territorial- my old Boxer x was VERY easy and it only took a couple weeks of leashed pooping before she figured it out. Same goes for the road- it's NOT his territory and you should scold him if he tries to go into the street without YOUR permission.

You see he only poops and pees in the drive way though, even when we go for walks he comes home and does his stuff in the drive way most of the time and looks like we caught him pissing in the house if he goes anywhere else and can't hold it till we get back. Even at the neighbors it was on the driveway, go figure. I have never yet come across a turd in the yard and we are out there all the time. He is always leashed when we walk or even go down the road and back. My 2 year old can walk him no problem right now and he listens to her and pays attention.