Quote Originally Posted by delusionsofNORMALity
here is the argument for nationalized universal healthcare in a nutshell. the childish innocence and greed of the cult of entitlement.

no one ever turned down a free lunch. it sure would be nice if society paid to feed and clothe my children, if someone else would take care of all my needs from the cradle to the grave.

i suppose that your government is free from the corruption and inefficiencies that plague the rest of the world. i suppose that you don't have to concern yourself with the loss of freedoms that allowing government into every facet of your life leads to. it must be wonderful to be able to trust your government so completely that you needn't worry about what direction they will take your life.

having to pay for a service is bullshit? i guessed i missed that part of the lesson on what growing up is all about. children may consider life a wonderful free for all, but any reasonable adult knows that there is a price to pay for everything.

yes, the right to life. no one ever guaranteed a long life or a happy life or a life free from the sorrows that are a part of all human existence.

again, your glee at getting something for nothing is apparent. the fact that you are not entitled to the fruits of someone else's labor seems to have totally escaped your attention.

having to pay for the better things in life is all a part of taking responsibility for yourself. with no personal responsibility comes no freedom to control your own destiny.

here is the big lie. somehow it is considered compassionate to be forced to care for others. compassion implies a charitable nature and charity by legislation is theft, not compassion.
Well, I knew you might pop in here and make this debate good DoN. I'm going to try my best, although a debate between you and I, where I try to defend any type of socialism, is just not going to be resolved. However, keep in mind I'm defending only health care, not feeding and clothing children, or watering the lawn for the elderly here. Feeding, clothing, bla bla bla for children is a completely different issue. Children are to be planned for - not taken lightly. And that requires a lot of the type of responsibility you're talking about...health care on the other hand is different. You don't "plan" to get cancer, to be shot, to be raped, things like that. There are medical conditions which people do not impose on themselves. And some people, I guarantee everyone knows one, has needed medical care at some point. If this person can be saved, shouldn't they be? Is it not a waste to let one perish because he/she can't afford to pay for a treatment they now need because they've fallen ill?? Never did I say my government was free of corruption ...ever. I just basically see it as kind of a joke. It does what it needs to, and sometimes what it doesnt need to, but all in all i'm not afraid or threatened by my government health care system "taking my life in some direction". You've got to step out of the anti socialist anarchy behaviour here, and stop taking everything to its utmost literal extreme. I don't trust them completely, in fact I absolutely hate my Prime Minister and think he is a scoundrel...i am just not as afraid of government as you seem to be. A program to help save a life is not Orwelian like you see it.

Having to pay for service is not bullshit at all. But The service of being saved, IF YOU CAN, is something worth paying for. You are almost equating it with a visit from the electrician, and a hefty bill because something's wrong with your house...that is a case of "shit happening"... For those who are happy to accept that , hey, well I could get hit by a car tomorrow and possibly die, but ...shit happens? Totally different. If that is the sentiment, I'd almost guarantee they'd blurt out save me when they realized it was coming to an end. Though there are some who see death as acceptable and inevitable, there are others who would like their life saved if it is possible.
Being an adult and realizing there is a price to pay for everything is hardly a convincing argument here. That is applicable to the example 'visit from the electrician'. So because I'm an adult I have to realize that I could be hurt and its better to not have a place to receive care because sometimes shit happens? I really don't understand your sentiment. I am not a child like you both have suggested..I realize there is a price to pay, if i didn't...well i'd go turn in front of a truck blindly saying, its okay, i have medicare?? i don't do that. You act like people are stupid for wanting health care to save them when a situation is IMPOSED on them which could take your life. I agree, someone who turns their vehicle in front of someone else knowing they could die is a moron and shouldn't have the "fruits of your labour" at their disposal....i'm talking about serious issues that can take a life. You just seem to not get that.
And I don't get something for nothing . I'm alright with the fact that someone who can be saved can enjoy the fruits of my labour, because I can enjoy theirs if something happens to me too. But they don't take care of "all my needs cradle to grave" nor do I ask them to.
Nobody forced me to have medicare either. I don't need it. I can go find health care elsewhere if I so please. So its not forced compassion...and its not theft from the government.
Again with the pure hatred of anything governmental..there's lots to hate, but on this issue I don't. And i don't naively think I am entitled to the fruits of their labour just because i get sick...they don't have to have medicare...
How does having a health care system make me incapable of having personal responsibilities. I have lots. For someone who recognizes that the government treats the population like shit most of the time, don't you think you deserve a few stitches or an appendectomy if you need?

As for Dave Byrd....
1. I am female. Not male.
2. It's hilarious how you argued the same thing I did in your first paragraph, yet called me a naive child for the same argument in your second paragraph. I agree with what you said: not that I want the government involved, but that if they aren't millions of people are dying needlessly. And when you say it will only get worse, I don't understand why we'd have a point of contention.
3. Its not entitlement or youth. My Canadian perspective however, does have something to do with it. You can view that perspective here: Universal Declaration of Human Rights
The aspect pertaining to our issues is covered under Articles 22-27. Now, I don't have all of these rights. But I consider health care to be the one of utmost importance. And as a Canadian(by the way, the UN declaration of human rights was written by a canadian, John Humphrey, 1949) I expect my government to aid this country in providing a health care system. And I respect the work of Tommy Douglas, who created and founded our system. Our country truly is a better place for it.
It is astonishing how both of you are so quick to make personal judgements on me based on my difference in opinion with you.

You said its a more compassionate way to deal with the problem you have. And I couldn't agree more. So please explain why you'd call me entitled, or consider me ignorant because of my youth.