Quote Originally Posted by daihashi
All I have to say Dragonrider.. is for someone who claims it's not an issue between left and right you sure took the baton and started darting off towards placing Blame solely on the Bush administration

You can not say that it's not an issue between Left and Right and then only point out the short comings of the Bush administration and not show the short comings of all groups/individuals involved.

Say what you like; we're simply commenting on each other's opinions at this point and I don't see this conversation going anywhere but down. So I'm taking this oppurtunity to gracefully bow out since I sense the potential for this to turn into a flame war.

for the most part we agree; but at the same time we disagree. I think this is the closest we're going to come to a conclusion.

Admittingly I really would've liked for you to address the facts I posted on the democrats position on Guantanamo and McCain's position on it. Unfortunately it looks like that is just not going to happen.

Enjoy sir. :smokin:

Well, I certainly agree this discussion is going nowhere. However, I don't think it would have devolved into flaming --- I do not engage in flaming.

And I do not agree that *I* framed this discussion as being a left vs. right partisan debate or ran with the partisan baton. If you look back at my posts, they were consistently focused on the need for Due Process. It was some of the various mods who weighed in who initially opened the partisan aspect of the debate, and I did finally respond when P4B said, "Seems that the left wing can't decide whether these people's rights fall under the Geneva Convention or our own Constitution." That realy irritated me becasue it is not the left or the right who had trouble deciding the status of these detainess. It is my opinion that it was the Bush administration who intentionally attempted to muddle the status of the detainees by arguing that they were neither POWs nor civilians, and I did not want to leave unchallenged the idea that it was The Left who had done so. In the same post where I challenged that notion, I intended to clarify that my blame for the Bush administration did not indicate I felt this was a Left vs Right partisan debate --- I said, "I don't think this is a left-wing vs right-wing issue. It is an argument between people who believe in the rule of law and those who would rather sacrifice the rule of law for safety. And I think that is a false choice."

And then you responeded.
And then I responeded.
And then you responeded.
And then I responeded.
And then you responeded.
And then I responeded.
And then you responeded....

And here we are. I'm all for closing it off.

But just to be clear before I sign off:

  • I support the right to Due Process and the rule of law.
  • I do not see Due Process to be a Left vs Right partisan issue.
  • I blame the Bush Administration for leading the fight to muddle the status of these detainees so that thye could not be processed according to the Geneve Conventions or through civilian courts and for failing to find a viable third option. However, my criticism of the Bush administration on this is not motivated by Left vs Right partisanship.
  • I blame anyone on both the left and the right for any legistaltion they voted for that helped to pursue this policy of denying due process.
  • I think the court was correct in deciding this case, even though I think the results will be problematic.