Quote Originally Posted by daihashi
Barack Obama plans to place payroll taxes on Corporations and the Rich.

Keep in mind this is just how I forsee it happening. Obama hasn't actually gone in depth enough for me to say "oh that's how it is".

I cannot say for certain the population of the Rich, but the population of the super rich is 0.7% of the United States. I personally estimate the Rich population to be no more than 10% of the US population.

In addition to this he wants to put a payroll tax on corporations. Which is fine and dandy except corporations have this tendency to roll over things onto their employees. This can be seen in the current employer Healthcare system in which most employees still have to pay some nominal fee to receive health care. Currently these employers receive a tax break for providing healthcare.

Under the new system that he proposes I am concerned that 10.7% of the rich can't insure 304 million Americans. In addition to this I am concerned that the taxing of corporations who had previously been receiving tax breaks to provide health insurance will lead to lay offs. The easiest way to protect profit is by cutting back on your work staff. You lose the cost it takes to employ them in addition you won't be penalized by that one person by the government under this proposed Universal health care bill.

That's the way I see it playing out. Whether it plays out that way or not I cannot say for certain. In another post I used hypothetical tax figures just as an example. I would post them again but I fear getting flamed by some posters on here. Heaven forbid I post some hypothetical data since the actual data is not available.


In regards to McCain. He wanted to shift the Tax breaks that the government previously gave to Employers and give it to the people instead. People will still have the option to get Employer based insurance if it's available or if it's even wanted, but he also wants to offer a second option by redistributing money that would normally be given as tax breaks to Large companies and give them to Americans instead. It's simply a redistribution of money.

I think I had said all this in another thread but to be honest the threads on here have gotten so intermingled I can't tell you where it's at now.

Honestly; as I've said before, I feel both plans are poor however if you're looking at it just from a comparison stand point then my opinion is that McCain's plan will have less Impact on the American people.

Really I'd like for them to do some light regulation just to get everything back on par as opposed to handing out coupons or trying to propose new taxes. The problem with this, for me anyway, is that I'm wary of giving the government anymore authority than they already have. I'm an advocate of smaller government.

All I know is that I am against socialized healthcare after seeing what I've seen in some other countries. We are a capitalist country and a socialized medical program that health care providers are forced into would probably hurt the industry more than it would help. If they aren't making money then naturally there will be cutbacks in the medical work force or a cut back in the work forces salary; which would probably be motivation for a few of them to leave and go into other fields anyway.

Again with the exception of what Obama plans to do and what McCain plans to do; everything I've said here has been what I foresee happening.

It's sad that I'm having to put a disclaimer at the end of my posts now.
Well, I think the reason you may need to put a disclaimer on your posts is that before you claimed you KNEW how Obama intended to pay for his plan and you were waiting for the rest of us to give you the RIGHT answer. And you claimed in the McCain thread that the speech you had posted had explained HOW McCain intended to accomplish his proposed, as opposed to posts by Obama supporters that you claimed did not explain HOW. But now you say that in both cases you don't actually KNOW either of these things and it is really just how you forsee it happening.

If you are merely going to make predictions for how you forsee these plans being implemented, then I feel my guesses are probably as good as yours. Here is how I FORSEE it happening based on the post by BigWeed and your post in the McCain thread.

BigWeed's post has several points about lowering teh cost of healthcare overall, but only this one bullet point that speaks to where the money for the Government-sponsosred healthcare plan will come from:

Employer Contribution: Employers that do not offer or make a meaningful contribution to the cost of quality health coverage for their employees will be required to contribute a percentage of payroll toward the costs of the national plan. Small employers that meet certain revenue thresholds will be exempt.
So Obama did say HOW he would pay for some of it. Some of the money does come from added payroll taxes to companies who do not already offer plans. That actually seems very reasonable to me. I would imagine there will be additioal costs not covered by this payroll tax, and I do not know where that money will come from. Surely it will be in the form of some other kind of tax, but I do not want to guess what it will be.

I checked through the enitre McCain speech and he did not say HOW he will pay for any of it.

You said you forsee this:

In regards to McCain. He wanted to shift the Tax breaks that the government previously gave to Employers and give it to the people instead. People will still have the option to get Employer based insurance if it's available or if it's even wanted, but he also wants to offer a second option by redistributing money that would normally be given as tax breaks to Large companies and give them to Americans instead. It's simply a redistribution of money.
But I do not read it that way at all. This is what McCain said:

But for every American who wanted it, another option would be available: Every year, they would receive a tax credit directly, with the same cash value of the credits for employees in big companies, in a small business, or self-employed. You simply choose the insurance provider that suits you best. By mail or online, you would then inform the government of your selection. And the money to help pay for your health care would be sent straight to that insurance provider. The health plan you chose would be as good as any that an employer could choose for you. It would be yours and your family's health-care plan, and yours to keep.
He said every American who wanted it could recieve a credit in the same amount as the credits businesses recieve. He did NOT say that money was being shifted from businesses to employees. What would be the purpose of that? It wouldn't solve anything to give the credit to the employee instead of to the business if the employee already has insurance. The way I read it is if a person does not already have insurance through an employer, or a person is unemployed, the person can get a credit in the same amount as a businees would recieve if a business was providing that person's health care. That's the only way it would make any sense and get any more people insured. So since the person did not previously have insurance, no business was recieving an exisitng credit for that person, and the money can't just be "shifted" to that peerson. That person's credit is a new expense that must be paid for, and McCain does not say where that money will come from. I'm not sure how many americans are unisured, do you? I'm guessing 40 million? If 40 million uninsured people take advantage of a $2500 credit, that's $100 billion a year McCain needs to come up with.

Actually, I do not know which of these plans I would favor, and until we know more details and what they would cost, we won't be able to compare them. I agree that I do not want socialized medicine, but fortunately nothing in either of these plans looks anything like socialized medicine. Not even close. McCain provides a subsidy to anyone who wants to buy their own healthcare inusrance. Obama does the same for those who meet certain income requirements. And Obama creates a national healthcare insurance plan for those who want it, with guaranteed eligibility and portability. Neither one is forcing anyone into a single-payer system or requiring that you buy into a particular plan. So if your main concern is that you don't want to see socailized healthcare, then it looks like you should have no worries.