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  1.     
    #11
    Senior Member

    Clone longetivity

    I have been clipping from mother to clone replenishing the mothers every 18 weeks with new clones to be future mothers. Almost a year and no weakness noticed at all. harvest every 6 weeks.

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  3.     
    #12
    Senior Member

    Clone longetivity

    Thanks Orzy,and Blink....sorry i don't mean to hijack the post,but i was wondering the same thing about clones and mothers...So what you're saying is it would take a considerable amount of time,before there would be any loss of plant genetics..if any?:thumbsup:

  4.     
    #13
    Member

    Clone longetivity

    Maybe he's just smoking too much? So he needs more to get high, seems like a simple explanation to me.
    Big stinkin helicopter flow through di air
    what dem call it dem call it weedeater
    dem never did there when me a totin water
    or when me did applying fertilizer
    yet outta di sky dem spittin fire
    and im a little youth man with a hot temper
    me dig up me stinkin rocket launcher
    and in a di air dispense the helicopter

  5.     
    #14
    Senior Member

    Clone longetivity

    Quote Originally Posted by Orzy
    The only bit of truth to what GreenLeaf420 is saying is that over the course of hundreds of clone generations some genetic degradation can occur.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orzy
    I've heard of people having 15 year old plants, but it's not a necessity.

    Sorry Orzie but I disagree!!!


    A mother plant for 15 Yr?

    The longest a mother is ever kept on my Veg is a Yr to a YR and a 1/2. Even a mother can not stay around for to long w/o fading off....

    Through light manipulation we can now keep a pot plant alive indefinitely. There's a grower not too far away that has kept a plant alive for over 5 years.
    But he doesn't clone from it. And it never flowers; it's in perpetual veg. It's more like a house plant.

    The reason that clones lose vigor over time IMO is because marijuana is an annual. Without artificial sources of light it will complete it's life cycle and die in less than a year.
    When you keep a donor plant alive for over a year, you are doing something unnatural, something no marijuana plant experienced through millions of years of evolution.

    The plant you take clones from IS NOT a mother plant. Mother denotes (usually sexual) reproduction, and that's not what's happening when you take clones. The plant you take clones from is more correctly called a donor plant.
    When you take a clone from a donor, that new plant, the clone, you shouldn't think of it as an exact reproduction of the donor plant--it IS the donor plant. You cut a piece of the donor plant off but it still is that plant.

    So the plant, kept alive for longer than nature intended, loses vigor, which affects both yield and potency.

    The difference in opinion is probably due to the fact that it affects some strains quicker than others.

    If you take a original F1 seed to start a mother what is better to keep the original or take cutting from cuttings on and on? Fifth sixth generations loose there potency for sure....

    Each time you flower the seedling and take cuttings over and over the plant looses it's potency and that is a fact in my Bible....

    It even gets more technical then that I'm just blazed out I hope STINK stops by and gets technical on the issue...

    People Reveg plants and they loose potency IMO.




    GL420:jointsmile::jointsmile::jointsmile:
    http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-gr...ds-grow-4.html(check Out the Rubber Beds)

    AMERICA\'S #1 We should all be proud of this great Country. It is just upsetting that laws prohibit us from growing certain flowers in ou
    r GARDENS!!!!

    All Pics posted are from a source who lives in Hungary were the LAWS are less Stringent when it comes to Gardening... \"I CAN NOT GROW A CHIA PET\"

  6.     
    #15
    Senior Member

    Clone longetivity

    I like my bagseed :P

  7.     
    #16
    Senior Member

    Clone longetivity

    It's genetic. The genes are what dictates everything about life for the plant.
    by clipping from a donor you are merely continuing the genetics. Genetic markers don't change, unless bred with other genetics.

  8.     
    #17
    Senior Member

    Clone longetivity

    conventional wisdom says Orzy is the one who is right.
    if it appears that potency is lost, it's probably because you've built up a tolerance to that strain

  9.     
    #18
    Senior Member

    Clone longetivity

    I have to agree with Orzy. I've got a donor that's a few years old and there is no way it's cuttings have decreased in quality. A different donor about 18 months old is the same way. Sometimes it's just the strain. BigBuddha's Cheese is one of those strains that wacks you as well a year or more later as it does the first time you try it. I haven't tried his bluecheese yet. To me a mother or donor never completes it's life cycle. Since length of darkness determines whether a plant will flower or not I don't believe the plant knows anything but to veg with less than 12 hours dark. There have been debates on this subject for years and it's hard to argue either against the other. IMHO that it should take thousands of generations of clones from clones before there is genetic degradation. Also, there are clone only strains that have been around for 20 to 30 years and still coveted.

  10.     
    #19
    Senior Member

    Clone longetivity

    I'd have to agree...a clone is an exact genetic replica... it's hard to believe after one or two or even a hundred cuts would likely make it mutate genetically...

  11.     
    #20
    Senior Member

    Clone longetivity

    Back in the early-90's I had a fairly large-scale perpetual SOG going on a weekly harvest cycle, with a pretty high demand for clones. At the time I was using a more-or-less random combination of mother plants (what I now call "low-cycle propagation") and "clones of clones" (what I call "high-cycle propagation"). I started noticing a set of symptoms occurring in some individuals. I remembered reading Ed Rosenthal and Jorge Cervantes discussing issues with high-cycle clones of clones, and decided to test it for myself.

    I started a test batch of 50 seeds, from several unrelated crosses. Normally I keep the clones in veg and flower the donors for the first screening round, but this time I kept the donors in veg and flowered the clones. After the first round of flowering, I had narrowed the field down to several prospective keepers, with the original seed plants still in veg. From that point I propagated all cultivars using both low-cycle and high-cycle methods in parallel, for several years. All mothers, veg plants, and flowering plants were grown side-by-side in identical conditions.

    I tracked the exact lineage of each clone on it's tag; for example L210-3-5-2-7 would indicate the 7th clone from the 2nd clone from the 5th clone from the 3rd clone off the original L210 plant, and L210-3-5-2-12 would be another clone from the same donor.

    After continuing this for about 2 years I observed symptoms in all of the high cycle lines (roughly 20 cycles) that were not present in the low-cycle lines for the same plant. Symptoms were not the same in all individuals of the same line, but many were segregated along branches of the family tree, and therefore traceable back to a single individual.

    Based on those results I concluded that there is something about high-cycling that is detrimental, and have used low-cycle propagation ever since, and recommend a low-cycle propagation approach to anyone who is interested in maintaining a clone for a long time.

    Keep in mind that phenotype = genes + environment. Different environmental conditions produce differing phenotypes.

    "Potency" (both total cannabinoid content and THC content) is definitely influenced by environment, so growing a clone of the same plant in conditions that are less favorable for cannabinoid production will produce less potent buds.

    Yield, potency, bud structure, and aromatic qualities are all controlled by quantitative trait loci [and are all affected by environmental conditions, in varying degrees. Cultivars that are described as "easy to grow" produce more consistent phenotypes in a wider range of environmental conditions than cultivars that are regarded as more difficult to grow.

    If your grow room has excellent environmental control then you can expect a high degree of uniformity among clones. If there is a lot of variability in environmental conditions, then you will get a lot of variability among different grows of the same clone.

    Beyond environmental factors, the genes themselves change over time, through the process of somatic cell mutation, and this also affects phenotype.


    Well Just some info GL420 :jointsmile::jointsmile::jointsmile:
    http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-gr...ds-grow-4.html(check Out the Rubber Beds)

    AMERICA\'S #1 We should all be proud of this great Country. It is just upsetting that laws prohibit us from growing certain flowers in ou
    r GARDENS!!!!

    All Pics posted are from a source who lives in Hungary were the LAWS are less Stringent when it comes to Gardening... \"I CAN NOT GROW A CHIA PET\"

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