Quote Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud
We tend to usually agree on topics so maybe you can assist me with this one. Irans population is roughly 65 million with an estimated 1-20 million belonging to the Basij. Here's a bit of info I've found on them from numerous sources but I'll use this one:

The Basij have been criticised as belonging to the paramilitary forces using child soldiers because of their underage recruitment practices and for having relied extensively on "human wave" attacks during the Iran-Iraq War, particularly around Basra.[9][16] Many were used as cannon fodder and for mine-clearing.

[1]According to the UNHCR "tens of thousands of Basijis had been ordered to prowl about every factory, office and school to ensure that everyone adhered to the Islamic code. [...] After the summer 1992 riots Basij units were revived, rearmed and sent out into the streets to help enforce Islamic law. The Basijis are reportedly under the control of local mosques. It was further said that the Basijis set up checkpoints around the cities and stopped cars to sniff their occupant's breath for alcohol and check for women wearing make-up or travelling with a man not their close relative or husband. It was reported that the Law of Judicial Support for the Basijis, published in the Official Gazette No. 13946 of 8.10.1371 (December 1992), provided no redress against arbitrary detention by the Basijis." Iran's permanent representative to the U.N. denied these charges.[17]

Amnesty International claims that "investigations by Parliament and the National Security Council indicated that actions by Revolutionary Guard officials and Basij (Mobilization) forces, among others, precipitated the unrest and injuries following the July 1999 students demonstrations".[18]

Human Rights Watch has reported that the Basij belong to the "Parallel institutions" (nahad-e movazi), "the quasi-official organs of repression that have become increasingly open in crushing student protests, detaining activists, writers, and journalists in secret prisons, and threatening pro-democracy speakers and audiences at public events." Under the control of the Office of the Supreme Leader these groups set up arbitrary checkpoints around Tehran, uniformed police often refraining from directly confronting these plainclothes agents. "Illegal prisons, which are outside of the oversight of the National Prisons Office, are sites where political prisoners are abused, intimidated, and tortured with impunity." [19]

On 13 November 2006, Tohid Ghaffarzadeh, a student at Sabzevar University was reportedly killed by a Basij member at the University while Ghaffarzadeh was talking to his girlfriend. The killer reportedly approached Ghaffarzadeh and stabbed him with a knife explaining that what he did was according to his religious beliefs.
Basij - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How can the people make "change" happen when a paramilitary group like this has such a stranglehold on the people? And also, how can foriegn visitors actually feel safe with this type of group on the prowl?

Have a good one!:s4:
I understand where you're coming from and what you are saying. I guess I was trying to imply that an outside force would need to covertly overthrow this government.

And that if such an event did happen I guarantee the majority of the Iranian population would welcome it.

That's all I was trying to say in regards to that.

As far as foreign visitors.. I can't really answer this one with certainty. I can tell you that there is nothing to fear of the people themselves.

Having some Iranian heritage I'm obviously not really considered an outsider... but there are a number of Dutch, German, Swiss.. etc etc that work in Iran and walk the streets without being harassed or anything.

Many visitors try to abide by some of the customs in regards to clothing (long sleeve shirts.. etc etc).. but these foreigners don't have these rules FORCED on them. It's just considered polite I guess?

I couldn't give you a clearer answer just because there's not really a clear answer to the situation that was posed in that question.

The only other way to change a government is to overthrow it either through a covert op or through support of a group inside Iran's own country who will stand up and oppose the current regime. Which I am definitely in support of over the US going to war with Iran.

Looking at this from a pure news standpoint.... How can we feel safe on the streets with crips and bloods flinging bullets around in broad daylight on busy public streets?

How can we feel safe with police supported mafia?

How can we feel safe knowing that cults are manipulating people (we've had two here in texas in the last 15 years)?

What about with serial murderers or rapists?

Or even PETA for that matter (don't get me started on these guys).. their legal form of terrorism is horrible.

The point i'm trying to make with these examples is that these are all horrible things that happen here in the states. When looking at situations over in the middle east I try to look at it from how it ranks on the "Crazy" scale as opposed to looking at the fact that they usually do it out of religion. Because we have our own fanatics here in America, I know from personal expierence that the majority of those people in Iran are not like that one individual that the news article was written on. It is somewhat shocking news there as well. The only difference is that their government turns a blind eye from it if it's in the name of religion. The people do not agree.


I am really sorry for the scatter brained response. I'm in some physical pain today so I ate one of my emergency cookies and am a bit buzzed/ ADD right now, but regardless I think you can get the basic gist of my response


Sorry again.