Teen killed by tiger had drugs, alcohol in his system

[dragonrider]

Smart idiots?

Nah that just means high IQ people or people with a relitivly inteligent mind structures. That do stupid thing because they dont use there gifts to reason.

Thus the smart idiot.

I think "There is no such thing as "idiot proof", because they keep making smarter idiots," means the people are constantly coming up with new, innovative and ingeniously idiotic things to do. Some people are so creatively idiotic that it boggles the mind.

dragonrider Reviewed by dragonrider on 06-06-2008. Teen killed by tiger had drugs, alcohol in his system The 17-year-old San Jose teen mauled to death by a San Francisco Zoo tiger on Christmas Day had some alcohol and pot in his bloodstream, according to a coroner's toxicology report. Carlos Sousa Jr. had 0.04 percent ethanol and 6.6 nanograms of Delta-9 THC, the active ingredient in marijuana, in his blood stream, according to a report performed almost six months ago by NMS Labs in Willow Glen, Pa. The toxicology attachment is part of a larger examination of Sousa's death - caused Rating: 5

[Mississippi Steve]

Listen to yourself...

It never happened before.. therefore it could never possibly happen unless someone makes it happen? That just sounds ridiculous. Read that sentence over and over again because that is the basic summary of your post.

Regardless if someone made it happen or not that is not the point or issue at hand. The point is that it shouldn't be able to happen even if someone were to provoke an animal. The zoo has to think about the safety of the community of the people in the Zoo... not just the individual viewing the exhibit.

In that regards it is the ZOO's RESPONSIBILITY to make sure that incase some jackass jerk provokes a tiger.. that it can't get out and hurt innocent people.

OK....so your defending cruelty to animals, and saying its OK for some stupid kids to provoke wild animals, and torment them, and your also saying that the stoopid kids bear no responsibility for their actions?????

Thats pretty ignorant.

FWIW, even if the fence had been at the suggested height, when the cat got mad enough, it was gonna get out anyway.

You can't protect people against their own stupidity.

[dragonrider]

OK....so your defending cruelty to animals, and saying its OK for some stupid kids to provoke wild animals, and torment them, and your also saying that the stoopid kids bear no responsibility for their actions?????

Thats pretty ignorant.

FWIW, even if the fence had been at the suggested height, when the cat got mad enough, it was gonna get out anyway.

You can't protect people against their own stupidity.

They should be able to design an enclosure that the cat cannot get out of even if you wrapped yourself in bacon and catnip, threw rocks and called him a big "pussy." There is no excuse for having an enclosure that a tiger can get out of.

You might not be able to pretect someone from their own stupidity, but I want to be protected from somebody elses stupidity. So if THEY provoke a tiger, it doesn't get out and eat ME. Otherwise I'm never going to the zoo again.

That said, I totally agree that anyone who taunts a tiger should pay a price. I'd be OK with throwing the kid in with the tiger, as long as the tiger did not get out and hurt anyone else....

[daihashi]

OK....so your defending cruelty to animals, and saying its OK for some stupid kids to provoke wild animals, and torment them, and your also saying that the stoopid kids bear no responsibility for their actions?????

Thats pretty ignorant.

Please show me where I defended cruelty to animals?

Show me where I said it's ok for stupid kids to provoke a wild animal?

It's ignorant to place words in people's mouth and then convince yourself they really said them.

What I said was that it is the Zoo's responsibility to ensure that everyone inside the Zoo remains safe. Even if someone antagonizes an animal the Zoo needs to be confident that no one will get hurt.

Kids are going to do stupid things, that is just what kids do. If the Zoo can't take this into consideration when designing their cages and exhibits for safety then that Zoo needs to be shut down.

Secondly you are taking this to extreme... Human life/Safety vs the life of an animal.

You should read and re-read posts before you start name calling because everything you accused me of saying... I did not say.

FWIW, even if the fence had been at the suggested height, when the cat got mad enough, it was gonna get out anyway.

Really? Where is your scientific fact to back this? I suppose that everyone who has researched how tall a tiger exhibit needs to be is wrong and you're right?

Apparently Tigers are like the incredible Hulk and gain super powers when they get pissy?

I don't mean to sound like I'm demeaning you but do you read what you post before you type them? It's absolutely ridiculous to suggest that the height of an enclosure does not matter when it comes to securing an animal that can jump signifigant heights.

So if the enclosure was 50ft high you think the Tiger would still some how magically leap over it?

You can't protect people against their own stupidity.

You're right. All you can do is smack them down when they call you ignorant and completely misread your post.

As you can tell your arrogance and eagerness to start flinging mud is not appreciated. In my original post replying to you I never once condescended you and even agreed that kids that would provoke an animal are pretty stupid.

Did I do something to piss you off?

[daihashi]

That said, I totally agree that anyone who taunts a tiger should pay a price. I'd be OK with throwing the kid in with the tiger, as long as the tiger did not get out and hurt anyone else....

Your post was very well written up to this point where I suddenly became confused at your 180.

Perhaps you can shed some light on this for me. I assure you this is a genuine question.

What is it that makes people wish harm on others they don't even know?

The boy who died in this mauling was not even the one who was provoking or antagonizing the Tiger.

People have said that you deserve to die for doing this.

When you're a teenage boy is it really worth Death when you're doing something stupid and childish? I agree that the individuals should be punished if caught, but to wish death upon them is a bit extreme.

Nobody here was there at the Zoo that day to see what happened and it baffles me how people can so coldly say that another person deserves to die.

[Mississippi Steve]

The world is not "lawyer proof"

Stoopid people(and their buddies) do stoopid things and they pay the price. Too bad the cat didn't get all three of them.

OTOH, liberals want to sue gun manufacturers because somebody else, not even remotely connected with the gun manufacturers, pulled the trigger. Maybe we should sue the automotive manufacturers when a drunk driver kills somebody. If the idiots had been throwing rocks at a bee hive and got their asses stung...how are you gonna make a bee hive idiot proof?? You can't protect stoopid people from themselves.

I don't have any sympathy for the stoopid kids that do stoopid things that they *KNOW* they are not supposed to do, and then get themselves and/or somebody else hurt.

[daihashi]

The world is not "lawyer proof"

Stoopid people(and their buddies) do stoopid things and they pay the price. Too bad the cat didn't get all three of them.

OTOH, liberals want to sue gun manufacturers because somebody else, not even remotely connected with the gun manufacturers, pulled the trigger. Maybe we should sue the automotive manufacturers when a drunk driver kills somebody. If the idiots had been throwing rocks at a bee hive and got their asses stung...how are you gonna make a bee hive idiot proof?? You can't protect stoopid people from themselves.

I don't have any sympathy for the stoopid kids that do stoopid things that they *KNOW* they are not supposed to do, and then get themselves and/or somebody else hurt.

Who was talking about Lawyers? Who was talking about liberals and guns?

We're talking about a Zoo and them meeting industry regulations for the height requirement of a tiger Exhibit.

If they were throwing rocks at a bee hive then they were probably at a location by themselves and other people are out of harms way.

If a 5 year old had been the one provoking the animal would you wish death upon him?

If a 5 year old was throwing rocks at a bee hive would he be stupid? Or would he be a 5 year kid doing what little 5 year old kids do?

The Age of these kids in this situation should not be a factor. Regardless of their age the fact remains that they were still children/teenagers. That's all that's relevant in terms of age.

I agree whole heartedly that it is stupid and wrong to tease an animal, but I disagree that someone deserves to die for essentially being immature and a child.

Example:

Do you slap your kid when he spills a glass of milk? I mean it's stupid to spill a glass of milk. Let's totally ignore the fact that they might not have the same motor skills as an adult. Or that their depth perception may be off a bit... or that their hands might not fit around the glass like ours. IT's stupid to spill a glass of milk? Right?

Let's ignore the fact that these young people are still developing mentally and still maturing. Let's ignore the fact that it's a bunch of boys hanging around each other... because you've never done something immature in your life right? They should act like adults as soon as they pop out of the womb right?

It's just ridiculous to suggest that someone deserves death for being a kid.

It was never the kids responsibility to protect everyone in the zoo. It may have been their job to not jackass around like that but not to maintain the safety of the zoo. That was the ZOO's responsibility, and part of that responsibility was to make sure the Tiger could not get out of it's exhibit no matter what the cause.

I do think the two remaining kids should be punished to learn from their actions. The death of their friend will probably haunt them forever as it is, but they don't deserve to die for essentially being an immature kid/teenager.

It's not like they went out with a gun with the intent of purposefully taking a life. They were just being immature idiots and karma reared it's ugly head.

[daihashi]

btw Mississippi Steve,

Thanks for apologizing for falsely accusing me of supporting animal abuse.

And thank you for retracting calling me ignorant. </sarcasm>


I never expected you to retract the ignorant statement but I at least thought you would be decent enough to apologize for saying I support tormenting and animal cruelty when I OBVIOUSLY said no such thing.

Thanks, you're a true gem :wtf:

[Mississippi Steve]

btw Mississippi Steve,

Thanks for apologizing for falsely accusing me of supporting animal abuse.

And thank you for retracting calling me ignorant. </sarcasm>


I never expected you to retract the ignorant statement but I at least thought you would be decent enough to apologize for saying I support tormenting and animal cruelty when I OBVIOUSLY said no such thing.

Thanks, you're a true gem :wtf:

The way you came across, you make it sound like its the zoo's fault for the kids tormenting the cat and the zoo's fault for the cat retaliating, and that it was OK for the kids to torment the cats, and just blame the zoo for the kids stupidity. Your not ignorant, but your statement certainly was.

The simple fact remains that the kids were doing something that they *KNEW* was wrong. There is no excuse for that. They also paid the price for it.

If you do something that you *KNOW* is wrong, and you get your butt in a jam for it or worse, then its your fault alone, and not the responsibility of anybody else, regardless of the situation or circumstance.

In short, if they hadn't put themselves in a position where somebody had to *DO* something about it in the first place, then there wouldn't be a problem.

[daihashi]

The way you came across, you make it sound like its the zoo's fault for the kids tormenting the cat and the zoo's fault for the cat retaliating, and that it was OK for the kids to torment the cats, and just blame the zoo for the kids stupidity. Your not ignorant, but your statement certainly was.

The simple fact remains that the kids were doing something that they *KNEW* was wrong. There is no excuse for that. They also paid the price for it.

If you do something that you *KNOW* is wrong, and you get your butt in a jam for it or worse, then its your fault alone, and not the responsibility of anybody else, regardless of the situation or circumstance.

In short, if they hadn't put themselves in a position where somebody had to *DO* something about it in the first place, then there wouldn't be a problem.

So let's let all the animals roam free since they won't attack unless someone does something stupid.

You are still disregarding the fact that it is the Zoo's responsibility to ensure the safety of it's visitors. It is not the responsibility of the individual.

And you still have not retracted your statement about me and animal abuse. Which is pretty obvious in plain view that I never said that.

And again you call me ignorant for simply pointing out the fact that it is the Zoo's responsibility to ensure everyone is safe from the animals that they put on exhibit? Am I wrong? If it's my job to keep everyone safe in the Zoo then you bet your ass that I won't be going to the Zoo ever again. I can't keep everyone safe in there and I would hope that people wouldn't place responsibility on me to make sure a tiger stays in his exhibit. To say that I have the ability or skill necessary to keep an animal in their cage is insane.

No one ever said the kids weren't stupid or immature. But to insist it's not the Zoo's job to ensure the safety of it's visitors is just moronic. You are placing blame on the kids for the tiger getting out and while it was stupid and idiotic to antagonize an animal that weighs about 10x you do the point of the matter is that the tiger should not have been able to get out of it's exhibit even if someone were to do that.

In Houston Zoo we have about a 20 ft gap between the fence and the tiger area, between this 20 ft gap there is a trench that is about 16-25 ft deep. Zoo care takers go to great lengths to ensure that it's visitors are safe. Many exhibits are constantly shut down for upgrades and renovations to further the safety and overall experience of Zoo visitors. Something the San Francisco Zoo OBVIOUSLY overlooked or simply did not care about until it was too late.

You've still failed to respond to a number of things in my post in regards to maturity and the developing mind.

All your arguements have been to the tune of "stupid kids, stupid kids, stupid kids.". I'm sorry but you fail to back your argument with anything of substance what so ever.


I'm done debating this with you. Your lack of ability to reason is uncanny and I won't be checking back in on this thread.