An Innocent Man Tortured at Gitmo Tells All

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

I personally think these pricks who do this shit to these people should be stoned to death..

I don't know... personally I think that form of execution should be bestowed upon respectable stoners like you and I. :S5: :smokebong:

[Burn_One_Down]

That's horrible.. Makes me sad that the US would do this to anyone.

[Dream of the iris]

Well that's it! That's the flaw that I was talking about. The change that needs to be done to a system that could work. Obviously they used little or no effort to find out if this person was really a terrorist. It was just a matter or neglect and responsibility. If the right people were in charge and did it the correct way then I guarentee the U.S can easily find evidence that would infer that he was a terrorist. Another thing that must be changed is the not having any rights in court. I mean why even bother having a court system at Gitmo if they aren't even allowed a fair trial? These are things that need to be changed and its not just changes in systems like Gitmo but also with our other systems like the tax system, FDA, CIA, DEA. Just simply getting rid of things rather then fixing them is stoner Ron Paul talk.

[psychocat]

How do you know who a bad guy is and who isnt? For all we know that guy who got out of Gitmo and did the suicide bombing was a peaceful man until America tortured him to high hell and stuffed him into a hole in the wall.

The easiest way to make an enemy is to abuse an innocent.
America should be ashamed of the tactics it's goverment uses, put a person under enough pressure and they will admit to anything just to stop the torture.
It sickens me that the US tries to justify torture whilst condeming other regimes for thier use of it, the height of hypocrisy if you ask me.

Well If the right people were in charge and did it the correct way then I guarentee the U.S can easily find evidence that would infer that he was a terrorist. Another thing that must be changed is the not having any rights in court. .

Inference of guilt is not proof , it makes a joke of the supposed democratic practice of assuming innocence till PROVEN guilty.

[8182KSKUSH]

You could do about 10 seconds worth of research and find out that this story IS NOT OPEN AND SHUT. This thread should be moved to the conspiracy section. There is a wealth of information available on this innocent little schoolgirl.
P.S.
For some bizarre reason, Germany had at one point sent people to Gitmo to participate in interrogations with this turd. This is not something that is normal for Germany, they are not allowed to assist in any other countries legal activities if they use the death penalty. So they must be dillusional too? Or maybe they just let him go to follow him. Whatever happened, I do not buy the premise of this article, but hey, at least it gives people a chance to post hateful things about the U.S. !!! After all it is a cannabis site huh?

[8182KSKUSH]

The German BKA Dossier on Murat Kurnaz

John Rosenthal | Bio | 21 Jun 2007
WPR Blog

As of 2002, Germany's Federal Office of Criminal Investigations (BKA) classified former Guantanamo inmate and current German media star, Murat Kurnaz, as a security risk. (On Kurnaz in the German media, see the accompanying article "Guantanamo Tales.") This classification was based on a series of police findings linking Kurnaz to Islamic extremist milieus in Germany: including to persons who are linked in turn to the "Hamburg Cell" that planned the 9/11 terrorist attacks. The relevant facts were presented by BKA Deputy Director Bernhard Falk in March, during hearings held before a German parliamentary committee investigating the Kurnaz case. They have been summarized in a March 22 press release issued by committee member Thomas Oppermann of the Social Democratic Party.

Despite their being made public, these facts have had astonishingly little impact on the coverage of Kurnaz's case in the German media and, in particular, on the customary depiction of Kurnaz as an "innocent" victim who, in the words of Luzia Braun of German public television ZDF, "had nothing to do with terrorism." Perhaps more astonishingly still, they have been entirely ignored by the American news media. In order to rectify the latter situation, World Politics Review here presents a complete English translation of Thomas Oppermann's summary of the contents of the BKA file on Murat Kurnaz:

The classification of Murat Kurnaz as a security risk was based on the following findings, among others:

1. On October 3, 2001 - three weeks after the September 11 terrorist attacks - Kurnaz set off to Pakistan with his friend Selcuk Bilgin, without saying goodbye to his family or informing his school. He broke off his course of studies in midstream. According to his mother, he purchased heavy boots and two pairs of binoculars immediately prior to his departure.
2. Kurnaz's and Bilgin's airplane tickets were paid for by Sofyen Ben Amor. In a telephone conversation with the Bremen-based preacher of hate Ali Miri that was wiretapped by the police, Ben Amor described himself as a "Taliban."
3. According to his mother, in the weeks prior to his departure, Kurnaz "was brainwashed" by Ali Miri at the Abu-Bakr Mosque in Bremen. The Bremen police continue to assume still today that Kurnaz was radicalized by Ali Miri. Also according to the assessment of both [the German foreign intelligence service] the BND and [the German domestic intelligence service] the BfV, Kurnaz's biography follows a typical path of radicalization and "awakening."
4. Independently of one another, two direct witnesses have declared to the Bremen police that Kurnaz approved of the September 11 terrorist attacks, describing them as "God's will."
5. On October 3, 2001, the brother of Selcuk Bilgin notified the Federal Police [which is responsible for border security in Germany] that Selcuk "is following a friend to Afghanistan, in order to fight." His later attempts to relativize this declaration have been dismissed as not credible by the police. The wife of Bilgin, moreover, has confirmed to Kurnaz's mother that Bilgin and Kurnaz wanted to go to Afghanistan.
6. Bilgin was arrested at the airport and thus prevented from embarking on his voyage with Kurnaz. Later, in 2003, the police determined that he was continuing to try to recruit young, inexperienced Muslims for Jihad at the Abu-Bakr Mosque. Thus Ali T., who on April 25, 2003 hijacked a bus in Bremen, stated to the police that Bilgin had awakened in him the desire to become a Mujahideen through conversations and prayers and by showing him propaganda videos. According to Ali T., Bilgin promised that he would have him trained as a fighter in Pakistan or Afghanistan, just as he had done in the past with Murat Kurnaz. The training, Bilgin is reported to have said, would be financed by Al Qaida. The Bremen police thus assumed that after his failed attempt to travel with Kurnaz, Bilgin had been promoted from a prospective fighter to a "Recruiter/Logistics Specialist."
7. According to police investigations, there are numerous links between the Taliban Sofyen Ben Amor, who purchased Kurnaz's plane tickets, and the "Hamburg Cell" [which planned the 9/11 attacks]. Thus, for example, Ben Amor's telephone number was found in an address book that was seized during a Hamburg raid carried out as part of the Federal District Attorney's investigation against, among others, Ramzi Bin Al-Shibh in connection with the attacks of September 11, 2001.

The police have determined, moreover, that up until September 11, 2001, Sofyen Ben Amor frequently withdrew money in the vicinity of the Al-Quds Mosque in Hamburg. It was at this mosque that the "Hamburg Cell" formed around Mohammad Atta.

Finally, there are also numerous pieces of evidence in the file that indicate that Ben Amor, Bilgin, and Kurnaz have links to Mohammad Haydar Zammar, one of the most important recruiters of the "Hamburg Cell."

So, this "innocent little school girl" might not have been so innocent after all. The fact that anyone would take his word for it is flat out stupid. He should still be layed out getting a nice drink. Fuck'em.

[psychocat]

Torturing people in order to get them to confess is a despicable practice by any so called civilised country so please explain to me why America should be allowed to do something they condemn others for ?
It's pretty hard to take the moral highground when it's so obvious that you are as bad or worse than those you criticise wouldn't you say?

Talk about double standards. :wtf:

As for the reliability of security forces information I can say only one thing ,does anyone even remember WMD ?
The propoganda machine drones on.

I sometimes get the feeling I'm living George Orwells nightmare.

[psychocat]

You could do about 10 seconds worth of research and find out that this story IS NOT OPEN AND SHUT. This thread should be moved to the conspiracy section. There is a wealth of information available on this innocent little schoolgirl.
P.S.
For some bizarre reason, Germany had at one point sent people to Gitmo to participate in interrogations with this turd. This is not something that is normal for Germany, they are not allowed to assist in any other countries legal activities if they use the death penalty. So they must be dillusional too? Or maybe they just let him go to follow him. Whatever happened, I do not buy the premise of this article, but hey, at least it gives people a chance to post hateful things about the U.S. !!! After all it is a cannabis site huh?

The behaviour of the US goverment gives people reason to challenge the US .

[8182KSKUSH]

Torturing people in order to get them to confess is a despicable practice by any so called civilised country so please explain to me why America should be allowed to do something they condemn others for ?
It's pretty hard to take the moral highground when it's so obvious that you are as bad or worse than those you criticise wouldn't you say?

Talk about double standards. :wtf:

As for the reliability of security forces information I can say only one thing ,does anyone even remember WMD ?
The propoganda machine drones on.

I sometimes get the feeling I'm living George Orwells nightmare.

The behaviour of the US goverment gives people reason to challenge the US .

I love it when you challenge an idea with actual facts and information, and the only response is a flowery worded anti-America rant, that has nothing to do with or addressing any of the SPECIFICS OF WHAT WAS BEING DISCUSSED. At least it's appealing to the sheeple that subscribe to the "I hate America" ideology! I am sure none of them will notice that you basically just repeated the same rubbish over again while not acknowledging anything that could put into question the premise of this thread. Just pretend there is nothing to the contrary, and repeat, "It's all Bush's fault. WMD's, Katrina, Blah blah blah blah blah."

Psycho this is not directed at you personally, it is a characterization of how liberals tend to carry on debate in general, it just so happens you provided a real time example.

[psychocat]

Rhetoric and nothing more.
If you gave even one answer to what I asked I wouldn't feel the need to repeat myself.
As I asked (and you failed to answer) how can America call itself civilised when it advocates torture?
How is it possible to take a moral stand when your (your being the US gov) methods are no better than those you denounce?
Why should America be allowed to torture ?
Are you trying to say that all the inmates of GB are guilty until proven innocent ?
And if that's the case doesn't it go against the normal practice of innocent until PROVEN guilty?
Rights for all is Americas stand isn't it?
What about the rights of those detained?
You say plenty but fail to adress what are very valid points.
If you would be so kind as to make an attempt to answer at least one thing :

I do not hate America , I do however hate hypocrisy and blatant misuse of power. the "you hate America" card whenever someone questions thier practices is growing extremely old BTW
Gauntanamo Bay is an atrocity and those who support it's methods are no better than the people they are supposed to oppose.
As I already stated I have no faith in anything the security forces have to say as they have already proven how inept they are. They remind me of the Ministry of Misinformation from 1984.
Liberal is something anyone who knows me would never use to describe me