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05-18-2008, 07:22 PM #23
Senior Member
Idea about "Hell"
I have no doubts that you're well-versed in scripture, but you keep on saying that you're not offering interpretations, you're merely reciting the Word, and that everyone who has eyes can see - and ears can hear, etc,... but you are offering interpretations to all these scriptures you're listing. How can you not see that?
Originally Posted by Daal Curry Surprise
I commend you for reciting from the KJV of the Bible, which I believe is the most accurate translation. You're presenting the scriptures in a concise fashion, and they indirectly tie in to the points you're trying to make, but it almost seems like you're just trying to be controversial to 'stir the pot', so to speak.
You have to be controversial to get into the Kingdom of Heaven? Care to elaborate on that? As far as I can remember, the scriptures tell us something quite different:
"For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father." (Ephesians 2:14-18)
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Doesn't it almost seem like peace should be the focal point for how God wants us to live our lives? The interpretation of the verse in Matthew, where Jesus says "I did not come to bring peace, but a sword..." is highly speculative as to what He meant. You see, you take ten Christians and line them up, you'll probably get a different interpretation from all ten for this passage. Take ten atheists, and you'll get the same. What makes your interpretation correct?
We've all sinned, and none of us has all the answers... regardless of how right we think we are.
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23)
"God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged." (Romans 3:4)
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We've all fallen short of the Glory of God, and are sinners. You've broken God's Commandments, just as I have, as well as the rest of humanity. No matter our deeds, we are dead in trespasses and sin, and WILL be judged.
"For the wages of sin is death;" (Romans 6:23)
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We can't earn our way into Heaven, not by deeds, not by leading souls to Christ, not by being a 'nice guy' or a 'controversial guy'. If we could, then Jesus would have died for nothing.
"I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain." (Galatians 2:21)
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We deserve nothing less than the death penalty, which leads us back to Romans 6:23... BUT, there's a way around that, as you know. I'm sure you're familiar with John 3:16. We ARE to love our fellow man, and to preach the Gospel to others with kind hearts and an understanding nature. Being controversial for a "greater good" is contradictory to the command to love our friends and also to love and pray for our enemies:
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." (John 15:13)
"Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." (Matthew 5:43-45)
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You also keep saying that Jesus died for the sins of Israel, and that the rest of the Gentiles are apparently on their own. This is an interpretation, and is subject to much debate. Numerous passages suggest that Jesus was slain for all nations and all people, so that anyone who believes will reign in Heaven:
"And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth." (Revelation 5:9-10)
"And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly." (Romans 5:5-6)
"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:7)
"...but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 6:23)
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So, brother, I think that your heart is in the right place, but I feel your interpretations are going against the actual Word of God in several places. Also, the whole 'controversial theory' of yours regarding scripture seems that it would be more of a hindrance to someone who's not saved, and looking deeper into what salvation actually means. It doesn't mean eternal servitude to the nation of Israel, it means eternal servitude to our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. This is what you should be preaching.
Remember, Jesus healed MANY non-Jews during His ministry, and in the New Testament, Simeon blesses the child Jesus, and says that he will be a ā??light to the nationsā? (Luke 2:29-32). Jesus reaches out to heal people who are not Jewish, like the man with the demon in the Greek city of Gerasa (Mark 5), the deaf man in the region of Tyre and Sidon (Mark 7:31-37), and the young servant of a Roman officer (Matthew 8:5-13). The apostles decide that anyone from any nation who worships God and does right is acceptable to God (Acts 10:35).
Lastly, peace and understanding still works today, and has helped many of ministries bring people closer to God. Sadly, there's a whole lot of hate and vitriol that we have to compete with, but we knew that when we were told of our impending persecution some 2000-odd years ago. Jesus died for all of us, not just a select few. The ones who acknowledge that gift, and accept Christ as their savior, will ultimately inherit the Kingdom of God.
((By the way, per your first response to me in this thread, I never said that New Jerusalem would be anywhere but earth. Reread what I wrote, I said: "Christ said He would be going to prepare the new Jerusalem (in Heaven) for the believers, which makes me think that only a select few old saints are actually in Heaven right now. The rest of the meek shall inherit the earth after the new Jerusalem descends as the capital of the earth."))
Take care.
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