Idea about "Hell"

[SnSstealth]

live-die-worm food........tis all, enjoy life while its here, its over when ya die...its too easy to put blind faith in religion, its a great crutch, thank the egyptians for making it. But IMHO, when you die, you die...like al capone said, "hell must be a mighty swell place, if everyone is trying to keep you out of it"
I am SURE this will incite many nasty replies, but have any of you read the Satanic Bible?...there is more "provable truth" in there than there is in the Holy Bible...No disrespect Daal, but how can you say the bible isnt theories, that its all been proven? maybe in YOUR interpretations you think it has....but come on man...really?
whiskeytango
I just dont see putting all my proverbial eggs in one basket for something that no one can prove.

[apocolips31]

All that is needed is faith. I KNOW the Lord has helped me in my life many times. I have to admit their where many times in my life when I questioned if he was real or not but, he helped me in so many ways that their isn't doubt in my mind any more.

[Mr. Clandestine]

Matthews 5: 10 - Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

The KINGDOM of HEAVEN is for people who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness. If righteousness meant holding hands with everybody, hugging everybody, etc...THEN WHY WOULD YOU BE PERSECUTED?

You have to be CONTROVERSIAL like ME to get in the kingdom of HEAVEN. Snap out of the false doctrines you have been taught brother, that's all I can say

Now quit RESISTING.

Romans 13:2- Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

I have no doubts that you're well-versed in scripture, but you keep on saying that you're not offering interpretations, you're merely reciting the Word, and that everyone who has eyes can see - and ears can hear, etc,... but you are offering interpretations to all these scriptures you're listing. How can you not see that?

I commend you for reciting from the KJV of the Bible, which I believe is the most accurate translation. You're presenting the scriptures in a concise fashion, and they indirectly tie in to the points you're trying to make, but it almost seems like you're just trying to be controversial to 'stir the pot', so to speak.

You have to be controversial to get into the Kingdom of Heaven? Care to elaborate on that? As far as I can remember, the scriptures tell us something quite different:

"For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father." (Ephesians 2:14-18)
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Doesn't it almost seem like peace should be the focal point for how God wants us to live our lives? The interpretation of the verse in Matthew, where Jesus says "I did not come to bring peace, but a sword..." is highly speculative as to what He meant. You see, you take ten Christians and line them up, you'll probably get a different interpretation from all ten for this passage. Take ten atheists, and you'll get the same. What makes your interpretation correct?

We've all sinned, and none of us has all the answers... regardless of how right we think we are.

"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23)

"God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged." (Romans 3:4)
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We've all fallen short of the Glory of God, and are sinners. You've broken God's Commandments, just as I have, as well as the rest of humanity. No matter our deeds, we are dead in trespasses and sin, and WILL be judged.

"For the wages of sin is death;" (Romans 6:23)
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We can't earn our way into Heaven, not by deeds, not by leading souls to Christ, not by being a 'nice guy' or a 'controversial guy'. If we could, then Jesus would have died for nothing.

"I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain." (Galatians 2:21)
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We deserve nothing less than the death penalty, which leads us back to Romans 6:23... BUT, there's a way around that, as you know. I'm sure you're familiar with John 3:16. We ARE to love our fellow man, and to preach the Gospel to others with kind hearts and an understanding nature. Being controversial for a "greater good" is contradictory to the command to love our friends and also to love and pray for our enemies:

"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." (John 15:13)

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." (Matthew 5:43-45)
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You also keep saying that Jesus died for the sins of Israel, and that the rest of the Gentiles are apparently on their own. This is an interpretation, and is subject to much debate. Numerous passages suggest that Jesus was slain for all nations and all people, so that anyone who believes will reign in Heaven:

"And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth." (Revelation 5:9-10)

"And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly." (Romans 5:5-6)

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:7)

"...but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 6:23)
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So, brother, I think that your heart is in the right place, but I feel your interpretations are going against the actual Word of God in several places. Also, the whole 'controversial theory' of yours regarding scripture seems that it would be more of a hindrance to someone who's not saved, and looking deeper into what salvation actually means. It doesn't mean eternal servitude to the nation of Israel, it means eternal servitude to our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. This is what you should be preaching.

Remember, Jesus healed MANY non-Jews during His ministry, and in the New Testament, Simeon blesses the child Jesus, and says that he will be a â??light to the nationsâ?� (Luke 2:29-32). Jesus reaches out to heal people who are not Jewish, like the man with the demon in the Greek city of Gerasa (Mark 5), the deaf man in the region of Tyre and Sidon (Mark 7:31-37), and the young servant of a Roman officer (Matthew 8:5-13). The apostles decide that anyone from any nation who worships God and does right is acceptable to God (Acts 10:35).

Lastly, peace and understanding still works today, and has helped many of ministries bring people closer to God. Sadly, there's a whole lot of hate and vitriol that we have to compete with, but we knew that when we were told of our impending persecution some 2000-odd years ago. Jesus died for all of us, not just a select few. The ones who acknowledge that gift, and accept Christ as their savior, will ultimately inherit the Kingdom of God.

((By the way, per your first response to me in this thread, I never said that New Jerusalem would be anywhere but earth. Reread what I wrote, I said: "Christ said He would be going to prepare the new Jerusalem (in Heaven) for the believers, which makes me think that only a select few old saints are actually in Heaven right now. The rest of the meek shall inherit the earth after the new Jerusalem descends as the capital of the earth."))

Take care.

[Mr. Clandestine]

You see you got it all mixed up, you get it twisted whenever you see the word "GENTILE" thinking it refers to EVERY SINGLE NATION..you're wrong.

I'm thinking that, am I? You see, it's easy to think others have their ideas twisted when you're putting words right into their mouths...

..if only you people read from the OLD testament and the NEW testament instead of IGNORING the OLD, then maybe you can put 2 and 2 together and come to the conclusion that Jesus came to save ISRAEL and ONLY ISRAEL.

You people? I'm not sure if you're referring to me, or to everyone else who's replied thus far, but this 'holier than thou' attitude isn't convincing anyone that you're more knowledgeable about scriptures than anyone else who studies Christian doctrine, either on their own, or via institutions such as churches. If you're referring to me, I DO read from the OT as well as the NT, and I've given you no reason to suspect otherwise. Stop generalizing, please. It's ridiculously condescending.

As for the Edomites, here's a good interpretation about the remnants of Esau:

The EDOMITES

Mostly conjecture, but interesting to read nonetheless. If you're going to offer up conjecture and label it as truth, then I wish you all the best. I thought maybe I could reason with you, and even offered up some scripture to gain a little bit of credibility in your eyes, but I can see now that it's a futile effort. I'm always glad to see someone who's actively evangelizing, but it irritates me when I notice that they're offering only their interpretations of the scripture (which you ARE doing), and aren't willing to discuss scriptural topics that you may not agree with. That's not a conversation, it's a one-sided argument, and nothing good will ever come out of arguing with a wall.

Regardless of what you may think, you're no more or less valued in the eyes of our Lord than any of His other children who actively praise Him, spread the gospel to nonbelievers, and live their life by His Commandments. You just have an alternative means of interpreting our Holy scripture... but it IS an interpretation, nonetheless. That's all any of us are able to do: interpret what we read, even BETWEEN the lines, and spread our INTERPRETATION of God's word to those who'll listen. I'm not saying your interpretations are wrong, even though that's apparently what you're saying about mine. By the way, I wasn't indoctrinated into a church at all. I came to Christ by my own volition, and have read the Bible for many years (even as an agnostic) in order to come up with my own conclusions.

Luckily for me, my church happens to agree with my interpretations! Which reminds me... I gotta run, I'm off to evening church services. (Guess that makes you think even LESS of me now, huh? )

[Innominate]

So if you smack a white man in the face and the mark turns red, what would YOU do with him? Would you carry on your way or fulfill something for yourself?

I remember the thought of all humanity originating from Africa. Is that not true?

[Mr. Clandestine]

LOL! By your estimation, I'm probably more ISRAELITE than you are! My mothers side of the family is entirely ITALIAN and SICILIAN, and my father... AMERICAN INDIAN! (By the way, you should learn to cool it with the all caps. It makes a person look like a yelling, ranting, and boisterous lunatic...) Anyway, I've got an old genealogy report laying around somewhere, if you're curious about the tribes, but they're all there. Still, that doesn't mean a thing.

You are right about one thing, though... it's NOT your job to convince me, nor anyone else for that matter, that you even have the remotest clue what you're talking about in these rants of yours. It was Christ's job to do the convincing, and I'd say He did a pretty good job, seeing that Christianity is thriving today amidst a world full of homicidal Islamic factions, spiteful atheistic rhetoric, misleading evolutionary theory, and fanatical/overzealous so-called "Christians" running about and claiming that they (and only they) have the answers that mainstream Christianity is desperately searching for. We don't need any interpretations of scripture, especially not any that are taken out of context, because our Bible is proof that God needs no mediator to relay/decipher the message. He only needed the prophets to write the message. Aside from that, it's up to His children to decipher it. We don't need the opinion of conceited and persistently rude know-it-alls to decipher it for us! (P.S. - Sorry if that was rude!)

But hey, God bless you for trying. I know, in your own roundabout way, you're just trying to help... but I have a sneaking suspicion that you're scaring people away from Christianity, as opposed to drawing them closer to the Lord. One last scripture for you to ponder and write off as inconsequential:

"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea." (Matthew 18:6)

I hope you learn to tame that little temper of yours. Remember, regardless of whether you adhere to it or not, Jesus said that we should love our neighbor... not be rude to them for the sake of grabbing attention. And if you're wrong, and non-Israelites can inherit the Kingdom of God without being submissive servants of the Israelites, then you might want to consider that passage I just wrote for you above. (Or does that only apply to non-Israelites who do the offending? )

Take care.

[THClord]

Hell = locked in a Marijuana garden for eternity without a lighter or anything to make fire with.

[Mr. Clandestine]

Hell = locked in a Marijuana garden for eternity without a lighter or anything to make fire with.

LOL! That's the most insightful thing I've read all night! :jointsmile:

[Mr. Clandestine]

If we was in person I'd be yelling this truth at you..it is our DUTY to wake our brothers up with voices like TRUMPETS.

You wouldn't be yelling at me, my good sir! Because I'd be walking away. You'd just be yelling. If the two of us were sitting together, in-person, I have a feeling we'd be discussing these topics and the Bible like civil adults. You make commanding statements, and for that I'll again commend you, but I still think you're going about it the wrong way. I've never once had to be forceful with my views in order to help a new believer put things into context. I remember all too well from my days of agnosticism how blunt and dogmatic some people could be, and I promised myself when I got saved that I would never be one of those people. But I've still managed to save a lot of people through civil discussion, and continue to do so to this day.

"Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers." (Ephesians 4:29)

Edifying: "to instruct or benefit, esp. morally or spiritually; UPLIFTING." Now, this could all boil down to semantics, as I'm not really sure what the Greek or Hebrew translation is, but I think the concept remains unchanged.

This is my LIFE, this is my obsession, I LIVE this..this is what I think about day and night. I have DREAMS about this. I have DREAMS about breaking these scriptures down and awakening more brothers.

Again, kudos to you! Your heart is in the right place! But, this is also my life, too. I also live by the words that I preach. To do otherwise would be utterly hypocritical. If what you're doing is working for you, then keep doing it, by all means. But, try not to get testy with others who are also doing the same, just with a less demanding attitude. We're fighting for the same cause here, brother! We both have the same DREAMS, after all, and our life's purpose seems to be similar: to draw others closer to God.

Take care, and God bless.

[Mr. Clandestine]

lol alright brother, take it e-z:hippy:

Likewise, my friend. :jointsmile: