Why it is wrong to NOT attack religion

[eggrole1]

We do not allow discrimination here based on race, gender, sexual orientation, nationality, age, economic status, or if you do or do not eat okra. It should go without saying that making fun of other religions is not allowed.

That is from the respect part two thread, and I would like to point out some flaws in it. I will try to be as respectful as I can though.

The list of discriminatory topics has absolutely nothing to do with religion. I can't choose to be born a certain race, sex, etc. I can only control my economic status or nationality to a certain degree. If you are born into poverty, there is very little one can do to escape it, even in America.

Now comes religion. You have every chance to CHOOSE religion or not choose it. Just b/c it is so indoctrinated these days does not mean it comes without choice.

My argument starts here, attacking the choices someone has made in life, based on the data available, is FAIR GAME. I will never attack someone's ethnicity, race, age, etc b/c they have had no choice in the matter. On the other hand when someone willfully gives up control of themselves for a higher power the gloves come off.

I have made the argument before of someone believing in an absurd logic. A book, that has no roots in empirical evidence. Essentially a collection of stories on "how to live" (and not even live well if you take it literally) now governs a large percentage of the world's population.

Would anyone ever take me seriously if I wrote a book and said in it that there was an alien living on the moon that created the earth and will hold you accountable for your actions when you die, then decide weather you can live on the moon with him in peace, or if you did one little thing wrong you will suffer by living on Venus for all time? But he still loves you and all you have to do is submit to his ever whim. When I say him, I mena my bc I wrote the book, and you can never actually meet the alien, but TRUST ME, he is there, i just know it.

Yeah I am knocking on scientology a bit here, and I think it is a good idea to scrutinize it. It is a recent religion that gives proof that man can and does create religions for whatever reasons he deems fit. 2000 years from now is scientology going to be the new big world religion? Using current events in religious evolution to deduce why we have a book like the bible seems like a good way to understand our history/religion intertwine.

You can use the data available to make the most informed guess about how the world works. Science can't explain everything, but one can make a pretty solid set of rules based on observation of the known world and the mathematic we base our rules on. I am here to make the argument that using empirical evidence should stand head and shoulders above ANY non-empirical data. There were MANY historians alive at the time jesus supposedly existed and there is not one note in the history books about him. If someone was traveling around coming back from the dead and causing a ruckus, don't you think that would be worthy to note?

I don't mean to attack any specific religion with this argument, all are at fault equally. If you trace back religion you will some to find that the Egyptians pretty much 'wrote the play book'. See this page for the parallels between chrisianity and the egyptian story.

Parallels between the lives of Jesus and Horus, an Egyptian God

Religion had/has a purpose in the history of man. It helps explain the unexplainable and it keeps everyone pacified for the most part, until someone disagrees with it then holy cow look out. Crusades, sacrifices, burning people alive.... all bets are off when the enemy of religion is involved.

To conclude, I think it is wrong to allow someone to willfully choose a way of life that is not based in fact. Would you not try to teach someone that the world is round if they believed it was flat? I am sure no one here would respect that claim, and it is just as bold and evident-less as the existence of god or a higher power. I will not respect opinions that are not based in common logic, I will respect people's choices when they are logical or at least based on "reasonable" assumptions.

A book where I have to read between every line, that is thousands of years old, that has no empirical evidence for the bold claims it makes is FAR from a reasonable assumption to base decisions from.

Thank you for reading this far, and I hope to not have offended anyone person with my logical civilized points.

eggrole1 Reviewed by eggrole1 on 04-28-2008. Why it is wrong to NOT attack religion We do not allow discrimination here based on race, gender, sexual orientation, nationality, age, economic status, or if you do or do not eat okra. It should go without saying that making fun of other religions is not allowed. That is from the respect part two thread, and I would like to point out some flaws in it. I will try to be as respectful as I can though. The list of discriminatory topics has absolutely nothing to do with religion. I can't choose to be born a certain race, sex, etc. Rating: 5

[Fencewalker]

I will respect the rules of a privately owned business, regardless of my personal feelings...So your point to me is moot.

[stinkyattic]

I am also a logical person and appreciate your post and your points. This is a great topic for more discussion, and could be an excellent thread.
The rule as it is stated is simply a request to treat people with respect. If you'd like to argue specific components of a belief system; GREAT! Organized religion as a whole is full of strange contradictions and deserves questioning. As long as they can stay debates rather than nasty arguments, no prob. That's the point of the rule (just needed to make that clear ).
Okay... now that THAT'S out of the way!

I think that while each of us is free to choose our belief system, we are still products of our upbringings, and that includes how much we are even told about the content of other religions while we are young. I always say that one does not truly become an adult until one has risen above the way he or she was raised, and lives a life making decisions based on what is the right thing to do in this situation AS I SEE IT, not 'is this what Mom would have done?' Sure, we often end up making the same decisions as our parents, including picking a religion, but there's a difference between doing in because 'that's the way I was taught' and doing it because it's right, and it just so happens that your parents would have agreed with you. Get my drift? So if you were raised Catholic, and still consider yourself one today, is it sort of by default, or is it because seeing the other options, you made an adult decision to continue on?
My couple cents on the matter anyway.

[Mr. Clandestine]

Why attack something you don't believe in?

If you don't wish to subscribe to any particular religion, that's fine. Only judgmental religious fundamentalists will attack you for it. Other, cool-tempered, religious people won't attack you, but rather they'll simply disagree with you, and leave it at that. No need for "the gloves to come off," when a simple disagreement will do.

And what about people who adopted their religion based on their own volition... perhaps even into their 20s, or later? Those who WEREN'T indoctrinated into it by zealous parents, or active participation in religious institutions? Those people DO exist, you know? So, because they've decided to believe in something greater than themselves, they're worthy of ridicule... spiteful accusations... personal "attacks" on their beliefs? How are they harming any of you by believing in a God, or Gods, or nature, etc.?

I know of very few deists who shun discourse, but I know of many who despise personal attacks made by those citing "logical" assumptions/suppositions that disagree with theological thought. I respect your choice to believe or disbelieve to your heart's content, and I would never attack you because of your beliefs/disbeliefs. All I ask in return is that the same courtesy be extended to me, otherwise we'll have a pissing contest/battle of wits on our hands that will never end.

It all boils down to one word: RESPECT. Either you have it, or you don't. And I've come to find that people from both sides of the isle commonly don't.

[psychocat]

I was born (C of E) Church of England and protestant.
I went to Sunday school which was held in the local church.
I attended classes in religious education.

I don't believe in good or evil as the temptation of SATAN or the redemption of CHRIST but as choices we make , the consequences of which we can or cannot accept.
The good choices being seen as the result of good guidance from "God" and the bad choices being the result of evil in the form of temptation or greed. Many humans prefer not to have to take responsibility for thier own choices and actions.
How attractive must it be to have a get out clause (religion) to push the responsibility onto ?
I see humans as much more animalistic and believe that each of us is capable of deciding how we can justify what others may see as being "bad"
The degree of self interest and the lengths that some will go to in order to benefit themselves is measured against popular moral norms.
If anothers actions exceed what the majority percieve to be the morals of society then they are labled evil .

Just an atheists and common or garden sociopaths view of things.

[Coelho]

My argument starts here, attacking the choices someone has made in life, based on the data available, is FAIR GAME.

Well... in this case your reasoning also allows criticise peoples sexual orientation. Everybody is born male or female. Yet, during their lives, they can choose to be anything between this two opposites.

BTW I dont agree with any kind of criticising, whatever it may be. I only know how is to be me, i dont know how is to be anyone else. So i cant make choices for anyone else, and i cant claim that the choices i did myself with regard to my own life are the best ones for anybody else with their own life.

[mackey33]

This may be slightly off topic but it seems fitting...

My girlfriend and I are about the same age and we moved to this tiny little town in Oregon. Getting a family doctor was almost impossible. She got in on the first try; I didn't. The only difference on our "application" (yeah, you have to apply) was our religion. She played the game and said she was a Christian (she isn't, she's atheist) and got in right away. I said I was not religious and didn't get in at all. The questions were like - Are you religious? Are you active in your religion? Do you feel faith plays a part in your health and wellbeing? I said I was not religious and active to be sarcastic. Small town = Small minds I guess...

Christianity is a god damn cult in this town. If you put a Jesus-Fish on your business in the yellow pages, you get all the business you can manage! What a shame.

[mackey33]

I don't believe in good or evil as the temptation of SATAN...

I watched this video about Satan today - good stuff:
Part 1: YouTube - Dancing with the Devil - Part 1 of 2
Part 2: YouTube - Dancing with the Devil - Part 2 of 2

From the video:
Please understand that I do not worship any deity. I believe in a historical (physical) Lucifer just as much as I believe in a historical Jesus; which is to say, I don't believe in a historical Lucifer at all. However, if a "Lord of Darkness" does exist, the most deceitful act he ever carried out was to convince humankind that he is the heavenly-enthroned, almighty God.

[Breukelen advocaat]

This may be slightly off topic but it seems fitting...

My girlfriend and I are about the same age and we moved to this tiny little town in Oregon. Getting a family doctor was almost impossible. She got in on the first try; I didn't. The only difference on our "application" (yeah, you have to apply) was our religion. She played the game and said she was a Christian (she isn't, she's atheist) and got in right away. I said I was not religious and didn't get in at all. The questions were like - Are you religious? Are you active in your religion? Do you feel faith plays a part in your health and wellbeing? I said I was not religious and active to be sarcastic. Small town = Small minds I guess...
Christianity is a god damn cult in this town. If you put a Jesus-Fish on your business in the yellow pages, you get all the business you can manage! What a shame.

At the time of Christ, when most everybody believed in a god, and there was very primitive medical care, the average life expectancy was about 21 years. By the year 1900, it doubled to 42 years. In just 100 years, when almost everybody is at the very least skeptical, and science has triumphed over superstition, life expectancy is at present over 65 years and expected to reach 85 in another fifty years. The less religious belief there is to interfere with science and knowledge, the healthier people have become on average.

I would not go to a facility or doctor that approached medicine with a philosophy or belief system similar to the one that is described in the above post. It's worse than peddling snake oil - it is outright insanity.

[mackey33]

At the time of Christ, when most everybody believed in a god, and there was very primitive medical care, the average life expectancy was about 21 years. By the year 1900, it doubled to 42 years. In just 100 years, when almost everybody is at the very least skeptical, and science has triumphed over superstition, life expectancy is at present over 65 years and expected to reach 85 in another fifty years. The less religious belief there is to interfere with science and knowledge, the healthier people have become on average.

I would not go to a facility or doctor that approached medicine with a philosophy or belief system similar to the one that is described in the above post. It's worse than peddling snake oil - it is outright insanity.

ha-ha that's great...I don't believe in a "christ" but you are dead on accurate - BTW, i have a dentist appointment tomorrow, pray for me!

:thumbsup: