I don't know of anyone who is taking my advice to use the stuff at half strength. I don't get it myself, since that's all I've ever used. Half strength does some pretty amazing stuff, and I've always been too afraid to try it at a stronger concentration. I keep seeing reports of people freaking out because it does some weird thing at full strength, which seems to be the norm. Fine. Told ya so, and yes be sure to use Penetrator as well. It makes all the difference in the world.