'Redline's LED - DiY - Build' aka"GROW LIGHT"

[redline]

Rotation or some kind of movement is probably not a bad idea and something to be looked at as we move forward.

Nobody, especially guys working at our level and with MJ, has any kind of solid handle on light wavelength ratios, etc. This all needs to be sorted out.

Even if you knew that plants like a ratio of 3 red to 1 blue of the amount of photons received, it would be very difficult to translate that into the proper ratio of LEDs used.

First blues put out a lot more photons then reds since the higher the frequency of light the more power delivered. Calculating this is very difficult if not impossible without a specialized computer program and better mfg. specs or access to a radio spectrometer.

My best guess is if you use the usual 3 red leds to 1 blue led, you might actually be delivering more blue light to the plant.

I suspect that plants have a great deal of flexibility to utilize whatever light comes their way and dicking around with light ratios may not be as important as many believe.

[Projman]

Thanks for that insight on the blue to red ratios.

Am I mistaken or has the venerable Sns had good success from veg to bud with his Procyons? I seem to remember maybe he's augmenting with some red or something as a separate panel?

If he's had success with the product quality (as compared to the parallel goal of energy efficiency), he seems like the only guy that's describing his satisfaction. Is his Procyon + augmentive panel not the model to follow?

[Projman]

My best guess is if you use the usual 3 red leds to 1 blue led, you might actually be delivering more blue light to the plant.

I suspect that plants have a great deal of flexibility to utilize whatever light comes their way and dicking around with light ratios may not be as important as many believe.

The red / Blue scenario you're describing might explain why veg seems to have worked better than flowering.

I'm not so sure on the plants flexibility on wavelength. While I would subscribe to there being some deviation from lab to field, or also subscribe to some higher plants requiring slightly different coctails, It seems that if they don't get what they want they just don't do as well.

But who knows, is your very good point.

[redline]

SNS achieved 2 notable marks,
1. He was the second guy to document on the Internet a complete front to back LED grow. He was the first to do it with a commerical LED unit.
2. He was the first to achieve a comparable yield on a per plant only basis with HIDs. Each of his plants produced an amount comparable to a plant grown under
HID.
No one has yet documented a growth where LEDs have reached a total crop yield of .5 gram/watt/month which is the benchmark for a competent HID grower. Best as been slightly over .3 gram/watt/month by a Dutch guy.

So at this time, there is no evidence that LEDs can outperform HIDs.

The commericial units have to make a bunch of compromises in order for them to be a viable commercial venture. I think the guys making the stuff at home are going to hit the .5 g/w/m mark first.

[redline]

I do not like any of the commercial models for MJ growing. They are all what Veggi coined as the "brick" design. They concentrate a lot of wattage in a small area. They range from 100 watts to 300 watts per unit with LEDs packed into a very small area.

Lets take the Procyn since it is actually the best one to use for MJ.
50 to 60 watts per square foot is the norm for HID coverage. For us to be energy efficient with LEDs, we are shooting for 30 to 40 watts per square foot.

The Procycns lLEDs are mounted on a .5 square foot platform and have to project a footprint 5 to 6 times larger or 2.5 to 3 square feet. to get the desired watt/sq.ft ratio. That means the Procycn probably has to be mounted at least a foot above the top of the plants. (I would like someone with a Procyn to help me out with getting a more exact number).

What if you took the about the same number and same wattage of LEDs and mounted them over a 3 square foot area, with the ability to place each of the six 16 watt light modules where they will do the most good.

Now adjust the height of each module where it is 1.5 inch above the top of the plant. Adjust the angle of the modules on the border of the grow area so they are pointed into the grow without wasted light.

Since you are so close to the plants, you don't have to use lenses to gain penetration and save the 15% loss. So now the 100 watt homemade unit is comparable to an "85 watt" Procycn. You now have about 73 times as much light energy hitting the tops of the plants as compared to a Procycn at 1 foot. This is the only way LEDs are going to be able to outperform HIDS.

Obviously you will have to structure growing methods and plant type to meet this structure. I think what we really need to work on is getting the most amount of light energy possible to the plants instead of theorizing about precise light wavelength ratios. That can all be sorted out later.

Please keep in mind this is just my opinion and results have yet to be confirmed.

[Projman]

Red you have such a great handle on all of this. I'm really glad I found this forum.

I have a small discrete growing area ready and this will obviously work much better if I have less heat venting issues. Obviously I need to vent some.

So i'd like to take the plunge and see what comes of it. Use what "the collective" has for best data and go with it. Is there a recommendation for a system for a 2x3 ScrOG?

If there's a thought about using the secondary wavelengths to augment primary, I could go circular and rotate.

Thanks for any thoughts.

[Projman]

Actually, how cold you possibly rotate with a power cable attached... Maybe that's a poor thought.

[Opie Yutts]

Actually, how cold you possibly rotate with a power cable attached... Maybe that's a poor thought.

Now you're getting into my secret design, and it's not a poor thought. Clue: Search slip ring.

[Projman]

Slip ring... sounds like something I hurt my unit with one day but never told anyone...

Thanks for that seriously. I will look at this.

[Projman]

Holy crap that's the ticket. A slip ring. So Opie you have an inclination to rotate an array, really?