Clinton, Obama on collision course tonight

[daihashi]

I've never even clicked on moveon.org until you just now mentioned it, so don't try to dismiss what I said as if it's an ideology copied from some ultra liberal movement.

Because people like you are waiting to pick apart every small, insignificant, non-issue of a candidate, politicians are not able to be honest and speak the truth. People like you rip a politician if they aren't putting up a good act of being Mr. American. You expect perfection, and as a result, get deception. Then people complain and wonder why our leaders suck, is it really not that obvious why this happens?

The problem with politics isn't the "machine" as some call it, but it's the voters and media pundits that expect every candidate to act a certain way, talk a certain way, and believe a certain way. Is it really a surprise that acting and politicians go hand in hand?

fyi you've still failed to address my post where I asked why you do or don't back a candidate instead of spouting off heresay I hear on every tv station, read on every website and see in every newspaper.

I asked a question that should be very important. Instead you seem to have disregarded it and continued on your attack on p4bud. You don't have to like someone's point of view/opinion but you should respect it as they are entitled to it.

I don't entirely agree with P4Bud but I respect their opinion and I agree with you that most of the topics listed at the debate were total crap and it was a circus/joke; however I can definitely tell I overall can not sympathize with your viewpoint as you seem to lack any real motive or reason for feeling the way you do or lashing out at others who don't agree with your way of thinking.

P4Bud has stated exactly why they like an do not like certain candidates, all you're doing is blindly attacking someone with no substance backing your attacks. Just mindless attacking from my point of view.

Did you see where I mentioned how many no votes Obama has in the senate? Or is that just another person picking apart an issue that really doesn't matter <sarcasm>.

I see no problem with the voters picking apart candidates. These people are running for the most poweful office in the nation. I want to know everything and anything about a candidate. I'm smart enough to filter the BS from what's relevant.

Flag pin - not relevant
Bill Ayers - terrorism = relevant issue

[thcbongman]

Ya wanna see McCains numbers jump by double digits? Let the Dem candidate make this type of statement. Trying to bash a guy that spent 5 1/2 years in a P.O.W. camp being tortured......that would be GREAT for the G.O.P.!

Have a good one!:s4:

What is a criminal to one country is a hero to another.

[daihashi]

What is a criminal to one country is a hero to another.

people always say that but it's not really relevant. Any person wanting to do harm to our country is an enemy against you.

So regardless if they're another countries hero, the fact remains that they are still seeking to do harm to us.

Look at 9/11. Do you honestly think the terrorists took the time to filter out what people stood for what issues before crashing planes into the twin towers. Nope, all they knew was that they did not like America.

So point being is this, regardless if you stand by what this country believes in or if you don't.. you should stand with your countrymen united against people who would wish to do us ill inside of our own country.

It could be you that get's hurt if it happens next time. I'm sure that would change your perspective on another countries hero, at that point the person would become a criminal who has done you wrong.

[Nailhead]

I was going to edit out that last little part of my post, could be taken as a condescending remark, although that wasn't my intentions. Damn you 10 minute timer for editing posts, damn you!

[Psycho4Bud]

I was going to edit out that last little part of my post, could be taken as a condescending remark

Condescending and not allowed on the forums.......please try again.

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

[Psycho4Bud]

Because people like you are waiting to pick apart every small, insignificant, non-issue of a candidate, politicians are not able to be honest and speak the truth. People like you rip a politician if they aren't putting up a good act of being Mr. American. You expect perfection, and as a result, get deception. Then people complain and wonder why our leaders suck, is it really not that obvious why this happens?

Sorry if I feel that a future president should at least have associates that AREN'T domestic terrorists, hate mongers, etc... There are NO honest politicians or clean ones but we can make decisions based on how dirty they are. The last damn thing we need in the White House is somebody that's going to invite these type for a visit. Imagine, the same person that tried to bomb the White House now stopping in for a howdy? You can bet your ass come November people will be thinking the same about the Rev. Wright preaching "God Damn America" from the White House lawn.

The problem with politics isn't the "machine" as some call it, but it's the voters and media pundits that expect every candidate to act a certain way, talk a certain way, and believe a certain way. Is it really a surprise that acting and politicians go hand in hand?

No it's not...but I guess we found out that Obama is a lousy actor; we already knew that about Clinton.

Have a good one!:s4:

[thcbongman]

people always say that but it's not really relevant. Any person wanting to do harm to our country is an enemy against you.

So regardless if they're another countries hero, the fact remains that they are still seeking to do harm to us.

Look at 9/11. Do you honestly think the terrorists took the time to filter out what people stood for what issues before crashing planes into the twin towers. Nope, all they knew was that they did not like America.

So point being is this, regardless if you stand by what this country believes in or if you don't.. you should stand with your countrymen united against people who would wish to do us ill inside of our own country.

It could be you that get's hurt if it happens next time. I'm sure that would change your perspective on another countries hero, at that point the person would become a criminal who has done you wrong.

Sure, but the statement is an interpretation of a different point of view of an event.

Once upon a time the revolutionists were considered terrorists by the British. To us they're heros for emancipating the colonial states from Britain, but it doesn't mean some of the actions they took were morally right, but necessary to gain independence.

Speaking of Bill Ayers according to factcheck on AP, they first met in 1995, only knowing him as a professor teaching at the University of Illinois. From the sounds of you and psycho it made it sound like Obama took part on these bombings when the only established connections are $200 he donated to Obama's campaign, and a member of the Woods Board, a charity.

Fact Check: Obama’s Relationship with William Ayers - America’s Election HQ

[daihashi]

Sure, but the statement is an interpretation of a different point of view of an event.

Once upon a time the revolutionists were considered terrorists by the British. To us they're heros for emancipating the colonial states from Britain, but it doesn't mean some of the actions they took were morally right, but necessary to gain independence.

Speaking of Bill Ayers according to factcheck on AP, they first met in 1995, only knowing him as a professor teaching at the University of Illinois. From the sounds of you and psycho it made it sound like Obama took part on these bombings when the only established connections are $200 he donated to Obama's campaign, and a member of the Woods Board, a charity.

Fact Check: Obamaâ??s Relationship with William Ayers - Americaâ??s Election HQ

You're missing the point and are pointing material that's not really relevant.

The point is that Obama has no problems fraternizing with people who would wish harm on this country (Bill Ayers). While this in itself does not mean anything it does question his character. When you are up for election your character/demeanor/Ethics/Morals are all up on trial as well as your history.

Now with that said I don't think Obama as a bad person because of this, but I do feel it puts into question his character.

I guarantee you that he must've heard wind of Bill Ayers past as the information is well publicized.

Honestly I could even understand if Bill Ayers was just someone Obama had met once in passing. I considered that weak of a link between the two, but it was really bothering once Obama stated Ayers was reformed and respectable part of society now.. well that's what bothered me. Especially since Ayers has been quoted saying he doesn't regret what he did and he wishes he could've done more. That doesn't sound reformed or respectable to me.

Again I don't think he's the devil, but I don't like his voting record and I don't particularly like some of the back peddling I see or the question he leaves in his character.

With that said ALL the candidates have their flaws.. it's just a matter of finding the candidate who has the flaws you can deal with.

This election and the past 2 have been a joke. I just wish we would get some real candidates with solid voting records and a moderate outlook on things. Never seem to find politicians who lay right in the middle of it all anymore.

[thcbongman]

You're missing the point and are pointing material that's not really relevant.

The point is that Obama has no problems fraternizing with people who would wish harm on this country (Bill Ayers). While this in itself does not mean anything it does question his character. When you are up for election your character/demeanor/Ethics/Morals are all up on trial as well as your history.

Now with that said I don't think Obama as a bad person because of this, but I do feel it puts into question his character.

I guarantee you that he must've heard wind of Bill Ayers past as the information is well publicized.

Honestly I could even understand if Bill Ayers was just someone Obama had met once in passing. I considered that weak of a link between the two, but it was really bothering once Obama stated Ayers was reformed and respectable part of society now.. well that's what bothered me. Especially since Ayers has been quoted saying he doesn't regret what he did and he wishes he could've done more. That doesn't sound reformed or respectable to me.

Again I don't think he's the devil, but I don't like his voting record and I don't particularly like some of the back peddling I see or the question he leaves in his character.

With that said ALL the candidates have their flaws.. it's just a matter of finding the candidate who has the flaws you can deal with.

This election and the past 2 have been a joke. I just wish we would get some real candidates with solid voting records and a moderate outlook on things. Never seem to find politicians who lay right in the middle of it all anymore.

There's no missing the point. Many people are blowing the whole thing out of context in terms of character. There's too much overvaluation on character and not enough in performance. The Bill Ayers quote is especially out of proportion because the quote has been spliced and came from an article which is essentially selling his book. There is profit motivation involved. As far as the facts are concerned, Bill Ayers is a productive member of society being a university professor when Obama has known him.

Stick a fork in Obama tho, he's done because people don't look at facts, they look at emotions when making their decision. There's no doubt McCain will milk this issue whether with Obama or Hillary (when Bill Clinton pardoned 2 weathermen will come into question if Hillary is nominated.)

[daihashi]

Stick a fork in Obama tho, he's done because people don't look at facts, they look at emotions when making their decision. There's no doubt McCain will milk this issue whether with Obama or Hillary (when Bill Clinton pardoned 2 weathermen will come into question if Hillary is nominated.)

uhh don't look at the facts? How many times have I pointed out obama's voting record? I even provided links to it.

Several people in this thread whom I will leave unnamed have chosen just to argue for arguments sake instead of providing relevant evidence with references to back it up.

How is anyone supposed to take them seriously.

And yes you did miss the point entirely.

Just because a crackhead smokes crack, or a meth addict does meth it doesn't mean they would necessarily do something bad if elected as president. Sure he may never sell government secrets if elected, but it doesn't mean the possibility isn't higher because of it.

Now I ask you, despite that, would you want a heavy meth/heroin addict (currently addicted) in the most powerful office in the nation? Especially if the opposing candidate is not a crackhead/heavy drug abuser.

Situation is a bit different but the concepts are the same.

I accept everyone for who they are but it doesnt necessarily mean that I want them inside my home. Make sense?

If not then I give up because some people just can't see what's right in front of them. I used to be the same way between the ages of 18-23 or so.

I've yet to see one person who's been supporting obama to counter the voting record issue that I stated several times throughout this thread.

To me this seems to indicate there is no rebuttal, that the people on the forum supporting obama are not educated/informed on his political background, or they just find it easier to argue rather than provide evidence.

Again I have to say this again because I get the impression that some Obama supporters think I'm bashing him. I'm not, I'm simply stating his past and how I perceive his character. There aren't any Hillary or pretty good Mccain threads for me to jump in on and state their obvious flaws. At least no threads that interest me.

I don't like Hillary or McCain either. This entire election is a joke, just like 4 years ago.