Obamas Rev. Wright Slams Italians

[dragonrider]

I'm not a politician, but I don't believe for a second that the ACLU has MY liberties in mind, so their thoughts on the matter of morals and bible teachings are irrelevant.

The ACLU takes on a lot of controversial an unpopular legal battles, but I do think they actually have YOUR civil liberties in mind along with everyone elses, including the dirtbags they often defend. Regardless of what you think of their work, I think blaming them for bringing God's wrath down on us in the form of 9/11, is stupid. Talk about pulling an idea out of your ass!

If you can't discern the difference between someone truly representing the spirit of the bible, with a black seperatist, anti-american rant, then likely, you telling us what or whom you believe Jesus would forgive is either fallacious or uninformed. (unless you could provide a quote regerding this from Jesus himself)

Well, like I said before, I don't presume to make those kinds of judgements, and I can't provide a quote from Jesus himself. For that, we need Pat Robertson. He talks to Jesus personally all the time, and he can tell us exactly what Jesus has to say on just about any current event! Pat Robertson can tell us what Jesus forgives and what he doesn't. He can probably even tell us how to vote in order to prevent Jesus from sending more terrorits to punish us!

[Rusty Trichome]

The difference I was making was between Obama on one hand who said he disagrees with the things Wright says, but won't reject someone who is like family.

Ya see...this is the sticking point. I don't believe a man goes to a church for 20 years, and all of a sudden, is totally blindsided by the rev. Wright's comments. That is the man Wright is. Has been shown thru interviews, articles, videos, and his associations with Nation of Islam.
Obama accepted this mans rhetoric, his "theology", the black liberation philosophy, and likely his politicaly skewed views on the American people. Period. I don't really think the church will change it's philosophy and the tennants of it's church, nor do I believe, that thru osmosis, Obama has seen the light, and changes his entire view of Wright. Wright is, and always will be, an inconvenient excuse for Obama's failures in the future.

I do believe that Obama would still be there, going to the same church, same pastor at the helm spouting his hate and insecurities, were he not running for president. He has thrown his "uncle" under the bus at the first sign of trouble.

Lets see...so far, under that same bus are Rev. Wright, Obama's grandmother, America and white prople as a whole. Did I miss anyone?

By the time November rolls around, there's going to be more folks under his bus, than on it. (and yet those under the bus will at least be UNITED, lol)

[yokinazu]

umm i cant remember wich one it was but one of them holy rolin bible thumpin bigots did say that it was god punishing the country for our tolorance of gays.

that bein said i am in noway defending wright he is just as much a racial bigot as david duke. and so far i dont think the "crazy uncle thing" is helpin obamas cause. when my crazy uncle would start to spout off at the dinner table on thankgiving some one would tell him to shut the fuck up and keep his opinions to homself

as the old saying goes:
" an open mouth attracts closed fists"
or
" an open mouth has broken many noses"

take your pick

[Clever85]

You are all criticizing the reverend for being so outspoken about the many issues he brings up, but you have all yet to interpret or analyze what he has been talking about. Even worse, you are all using the "evil" reverend to judge Obama. Might as well persecute all the Catholics because of all the sex scandals a few years back. It makes no sense!

The reverend brings up many great points and issues that are not talked about and/or ignored. The reality of today is that the system, the form of government that is set up, exists to the benefit of white people. Non-white people are not benefitting as much as white people. There are different degrees and exceptions that exist, but there is no denying that race still plays a factor in today's world. You have a bunch of rich Latin@s, Blacks, Asians, etc. but the reality is that these are the very few that have achieved 'success'. Also, these are not the wealthy, the wealthy remain overwhelmingly white. Racism may not be explicit, but it still exists; it is mostly institutionalized.

This is all due to the history that you may have learned in school. It extends way back to the founding of this country. Slavery was a reality. These supremacist roots do not just disappear, it takes a long process. The United States was still segregated up until the 1950's! That's a few hundred year that went by before desegregation happened. Struggles continued into the 1960's era, into the 1970's and even into the 1980's although this was the era in which a lot of these movements were killed. Now, if you think about the history of the United States, how is the world going to be all peachy and perfect today. It's only been a few decades since segregation, ONE consequence of slavery.

Now, looking at statistics you can see that non-white people are still disproportionately poor, have bad schools, live in bad areas, have many health problems as a result of the shitty places they live, don't have access to good foods, healthcare, are subject to more police brutality, are not being represented in the government, etc. A perfect example is everything that happened with Hurricane Katrina. Like I said, this is not to say that a heavy contrast exists for between all white people and non-white people, there are varying levels. These things change according to the race, class, gender, citizenship, etc. For example, you can't compare the experience of a refugee from El Salvador who also happens to indigenous to the experience of a Black middle class man living in Ladera Heights. Both are non-white, but they obviously have very different experiences. Despite these differences, they are still subject to the same form of government in these United States that assumes equality between the two.

Back to the beginning, white people are benefiting the most. This is not to say that they are the only ones benefiting or that all white people are benefiting. There are still poor white people. As a matter of fact, they are the majority of poor people if looking at sheer numbers. Proportionately though, the numbers are not comparable to those of non-whites. This is because white is still seen as better. Look at the English-only movement, the euro-centric history being taught in schools, the stereotypes that exist, the media, the holidays being celebrated, etc. Because of this, white people enjoy priviliges. A great example someone raised in a conversation to me is in saying how people of color feel a sense of responsibility to represent their community, not only internally but because of society overall. For example, when a Latin@ goes to college and goes on with their lives in business and makes money and moves to the suburbs and doesn't look back they are considered a sellout. They are supposed to help their communities, it is their responsibility according to the Latin@ community. The white community is not subject to this to the same degree, if at all. They can go on and live their independent lives without having to worry about helping out the white race.

When the reverend says white supremacy he refers to all these ideas. It is not the same as him saying that white people are evil. It is him acknowledging the reality that white people still share privileges that non-whites are not entitled to at all or as much. He was very outspoken and explicit, but you have to think about why that is? Is it nonsense or is there a reason for his "hate"? Think about Malcolm X, everything he said; he even used "white devil" in place of white people. Conditions were very fucked up in his time and more explicit so he said it with reason, not just to be hateful. The reverend recognizes all the injustices that exist today and is obviously angered by everything. It is his anger for his experiences and his life, not his anger for white people.

I hope I was able to show that a more critical look has to be taken when approaching the issue of race. This is what Barack Obama was saying in his speech. I am not a Obama/Hillary/McCain fanatic so I am not writing this with the purpose of supporting Obama. There is still a lot of information I need to and want to know about all these candidates before claiming to be one of their supporters. Also, I am not a racist. Those views I have mentioned are views I hold and believe, but it is not everything I believe. The issues are way more complex so my views and beliefs are way more complex as well. I am simply tired of simplistic views on race and the way they are used to brainwash or manipulate people in this country.

-Clever85

[dragonrider]

Obama accepted this mans rhetoric, his "theology", the black liberation philosophy, and likely his politicaly skewed views on the American people. Period.

I think you are going to have trouble showing that he "accepted" these beliefs. He says he doesn't accept these beliefs, and you say he does --- who should I believe? I know from my own experience that I went to a mainstream church for years and never really "accepted" the beliefs. My dad has gone to church for decades, and I'm pretty sure he isn't really a believing Christian. He likes the people, and the activities are fun, and the charity is worthwhile, but I don't think the really BELIEVES. People go to churches for all kinds of reasons other thatn to "drink the kool-aid." I was once encouraged to go to a church to meet women!

I do believe that Obama would still be there, going to the same church, same pastor at the helm spouting his hate and insecurities, were he not running for president.

He is still going there, isn't he? The pastor retired on his own some time back.

He has thrown his "uncle" under the bus at the first sign of trouble.

Now you've got me confused. I thought this whole ruckus was because he REFUSED to throw his friend under the bus. I thought that is what everyone was saying he should do, reject Wright, and his problem was that he wouldn't. Are people upset becasue he did reject Wright or he didn't? I'm pretty sure you've got this backwards.

[dragonrider]

The issues are way more complex so my views and beliefs are way more complex as well. I am simply tired of simplistic views on race and the way they are used to brainwash or manipulate people in this country.

I'm glad there is someone else on these boards that can have a more complex view on things. These are complicated issues, and you can see that as soon as someone like Obama starts to explain a more nuanced take on the issue, people pounce on the first thing they can find and apply their simple-minded, one-dimensional views to it. Issues of race in this country are not black and white. (Ha ha, made a pun!) There are a lot of gray areas. There is a lot of resentment on both sides, and mostly people do not talk about it for fear of being labeled. Try to bring up a point on either side and immediatley you have someone yelling, "You're a racist!" or "You're a REVERSE racist!" We won't get anywhere like this.

[thcbongman]

Oo Dragonrider you sure love those puns, can't wait until the day you bust out a bilingual pun!

[thcbongman]

You are all criticizing the reverend for being so outspoken about the many issues he brings up, but you have all yet to interpret or analyze what he has been talking about. Even worse, you are all using the "evil" reverend to judge Obama. Might as well persecute all the Catholics because of all the sex scandals a few years back. It makes no sense!

The reverend brings up many great points and issues that are not talked about and/or ignored. The reality of today is that the system, the form of government that is set up, exists to the benefit of white people. Non-white people are not benefitting as much as white people. There are different degrees and exceptions that exist, but there is no denying that race still plays a factor in today's world. You have a bunch of rich Latin@s, Blacks, Asians, etc. but the reality is that these are the very few that have achieved 'success'. Also, these are not the wealthy, the wealthy remain overwhelmingly white. Racism may not be explicit, but it still exists; it is mostly institutionalized.

This is all due to the history that you may have learned in school. It extends way back to the founding of this country. Slavery was a reality. These supremacist roots do not just disappear, it takes a long process. The United States was still segregated up until the 1950's! That's a few hundred year that went by before desegregation happened. Struggles continued into the 1960's era, into the 1970's and even into the 1980's although this was the era in which a lot of these movements were killed. Now, if you think about the history of the United States, how is the world going to be all peachy and perfect today. It's only been a few decades since segregation, ONE consequence of slavery.

Now, looking at statistics you can see that non-white people are still disproportionately poor, have bad schools, live in bad areas, have many health problems as a result of the shitty places they live, don't have access to good foods, healthcare, are subject to more police brutality, are not being represented in the government, etc. A perfect example is everything that happened with Hurricane Katrina. Like I said, this is not to say that a heavy contrast exists for between all white people and non-white people, there are varying levels. These things change according to the race, class, gender, citizenship, etc. For example, you can't compare the experience of a refugee from El Salvador who also happens to indigenous to the experience of a Black middle class man living in Ladera Heights. Both are non-white, but they obviously have very different experiences. Despite these differences, they are still subject to the same form of government in these United States that assumes equality between the two.

Back to the beginning, white people are benefiting the most. This is not to say that they are the only ones benefiting or that all white people are benefiting. There are still poor white people. As a matter of fact, they are the majority of poor people if looking at sheer numbers. Proportionately though, the numbers are not comparable to those of non-whites. This is because white is still seen as better. Look at the English-only movement, the euro-centric history being taught in schools, the stereotypes that exist, the media, the holidays being celebrated, etc. Because of this, white people enjoy priviliges. A great example someone raised in a conversation to me is in saying how people of color feel a sense of responsibility to represent their community, not only internally but because of society overall. For example, when a Latin@ goes to college and goes on with their lives in business and makes money and moves to the suburbs and doesn't look back they are considered a sellout. They are supposed to help their communities, it is their responsibility according to the Latin@ community. The white community is not subject to this to the same degree, if at all. They can go on and live their independent lives without having to worry about helping out the white race.

When the reverend says white supremacy he refers to all these ideas. It is not the same as him saying that white people are evil. It is him acknowledging the reality that white people still share privileges that non-whites are not entitled to at all or as much. He was very outspoken and explicit, but you have to think about why that is? Is it nonsense or is there a reason for his "hate"? Think about Malcolm X, everything he said; he even used "white devil" in place of white people. Conditions were very fucked up in his time and more explicit so he said it with reason, not just to be hateful. The reverend recognizes all the injustices that exist today and is obviously angered by everything. It is his anger for his experiences and his life, not his anger for white people.

I hope I was able to show that a more critical look has to be taken when approaching the issue of race. This is what Barack Obama was saying in his speech. I am not a Obama/Hillary/McCain fanatic so I am not writing this with the purpose of supporting Obama. There is still a lot of information I need to and want to know about all these candidates before claiming to be one of their supporters. Also, I am not a racist. Those views I have mentioned are views I hold and believe, but it is not everything I believe. The issues are way more complex so my views and beliefs are way more complex as well. I am simply tired of simplistic views on race and the way they are used to brainwash or manipulate people in this country.

-Clever85

I'll start to say this is one of the best posts I ever seen on cannabis.com with 1 attempt. Beautiful execution.

However I'll have to bring up despite the institutionalized racism in this country, it has come along way since the 1950s. America has been excellent in integrating non-whites in society and tearing down the barriers of entry to opportunity. However I agree, we still have a ways to go. Prejudice still exists whether we like to think about it or not and the great thing about Rev. Wright it opens the issue of race again because it's progress needs to be evaluated. Racism simply does not end. It simply shifts form.

Though instiutionalized racism in this country is less apparent than in countries in Europe. In some european countries like France, arabs are denied lucrative forms of employment simply because of race. This does not occur as frequently in America.

The ideas of racism will never go away, but continually debated with better arguments will only help dampen and continue to open other people's minds to race and slowly change the institution. The people that grew up in the 1950s will die one day.

[Mr. Clandestine]

FUCK this renegade 'reverend', and his xenophobic - black supremacist drivel. And fuck Obama for willingly defending it for so long...

[dragonrider]

FUCK this renegade 'reverend', and his xenophobic - black supremacist drivel. And fuck Obama for willingly defending it for so long...

So much anger, Clandestine! Even Pat Robertson would not put it with such bile!