Iraq War: Was it worth it?

[8182KSKUSH]

Hey Dragon.
You know what I think.:jointsmile:

P4B pretty much covered everything well as usual right on

point! Yeah what he said

I think that they should put that question on an Iraqi Ballot just to see what they think. Anyone care to speculate and put yourself in an Iraqi's shoes and tell me the answer.

I will leave it at that I guess, I would love to rip into some of these posters though, but instead I will go use my relaxation method of hanging upside down blindfolded from my pull up bar and see how fast I can take my gun apart and then get it back together. Peace hippies!:jointsmile:

[TOOL9]

lol just saw this thread for the first time as I'm writing my research paper on the Iraq war. But to answer your question hell no i dont think it was worth it.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

4,000 Americans dead
30,000 Americans wounded
80,000 to 150,000 or more Iraqi's dead
Uncounted Iraqi's wounded
Millions of Iraqi refugees
$600 billion to US taxpayers for the direct war costs, plus whatever the economic cost of damage to our economy, high price of gas, damage to Iraqi infrastructure. Estimates of total direct costs before the end are between 1.2 trillion and 2.7 trillion, depending on how long it goes and eventual outcome. Estimates of direct and indirect costs together are about 3 trillion.
Loss of credibility, respect and standing in the world
Alienation of allies
Internal division within our own country
Increase in number of terrorists worldwide due to hatred and resentment over the war
Creation of Al Qaeda in Iraq
Ongoing instability in Iraq
Increased instability in greater Middle East
Exhaustion and depletion of our military, meaning decreased readiness for other threats[/B]

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-We ousted an evil dictator and his two insane sons

Agreed.

-We created a place where it was easier to round up/or kill the bad guys

You mean where badguys could congregate in a destabalized region, step up the recruitment, and kill hundreds of thousands of people? Seems the bad guys have accomplished more slaughter than ever.
Not to mention, every "insurgent" who fought America isn't a "bad guy" by default. Some of these fighters are Iraqi patriots that a) want to protect their homeland from a foreign invader, and b) want vengeance for the death of their family/friends via American bombs, and otherwise wouldn't have fought America in the first place.
I love how folk think that creating enemies then killing them, is "routing out the terrorists".

-We saved millions of Kurds/Shi-ites from genocide

Was Saddam about to implement a mass genocide? Honestly, I can't say because I don't know, but I'd never heard of this. Killing Kurds almost 20 years ago does't count as a current genocide btw.

-An enviroment was created where Muslims openly rejected Al-Quada

Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden were bitter enemies. Saddam was a tyrant, I'm sure arguments could be made for his own potential terrorist activities, but Saddam and AlQaeda were on very unfriendly terms. You may recall Osama Bin Laden publicly calling Saddam a "bad Muslim".

Of course what Saddam did do was manage a stable, strong enough nation to be a constant threat at Iran's doorstep. Iran couldn't afford to weaken itself with a US conflict with Saddam ready to jump in and invade at any chance. How does "planting the seeds of democracy" around Iran undermine it again? Seems that a brutal dictator as a hostile enemy was a bigger threat and balancing force than some democracy held together with duct tape.

-We saved ourselves from a terrorist attack via Saddam

LOL, being in the middle east doesn't make him a terrorist threat by default. Syria, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Egypt, Pakistan, Afghanistan, ALL bigger and more legitimate terrorist threats than Iraq.

-We made the region MORE secure by ousting Saddam

How is hundreds of thousands of dead people, 4,000 dead Americans, millions displaced, increased AlQaeda recruitment, and money spent in the trillions being more secure?

-We made the region MORE secure by sending the trash to Allah

Not even sure what that means... :wtf:

-We've gained respect with the people of that region by NOT running out on an obligation...cut an run would be considered a loss

Agreed. I don't know about overal respect gained (I doubt it), but cutting and running, leaving the mess to them and millions of people to the mercy of gangsters and terrorists, is disgracefull and downright cruel/selfish.

-We've been rebuilding a failing infrastructure left by a tyrant and expanding it's benifits to ALL Iraqis instead of a "special sector" therefore creating a new allie in the region

Infrastructure such as electricity, plumping, housing and the such, has still yet to reach pre-invasion levels last I heard. I wonder if every person who's home was destroyed will be fully compensated.


And hey, here's food for thought: Imagine if all those resources put into Iraq were being kept in the Afghan war. Consider that there are about 60,000 troops in Afghanistan, and the generals are calling for another 60,000 to be able to fully stabalize the region. An untouched Iraq could have had us won against the Taliban by now! Not that we should be focusing on real threats or anything...

[TOOL9]

Great post Gandalf:jointsmile:

[rdizzle12]

Y'all should watch "No End In Sight." Really opened up my eyes and put a lot of things into perspective for me. Mind blowing actually. America is indeed in a shitload of trouble.

[phatsesh101]

blah blah blah good or bad were past that from what ive read most of the people on here are poorly educated, the war is why economy is bad ha ha ha and its bush's fault LOL

i have studied war and we cant leave not until iraq can stand on its own and for the most part i agree with psycho although i would like to add some things. if saddams son came to power it would have been bad for the world.

and the economy oh gosh look in the mirror especially if you were a first time home buyer and got foreclosed you dumb ass motherfucker you probly vote on tax laws too. we are at an all time low because close to 80% of americans dont understand BASIC ECONOMICS (house of rep metting on c-span). exhibited by the high foreclosure rate americns dont know the differance in rates and how to calculate them and how it effects their monies its easy you never buy a stock when its at an all time high. why a house. just wait until the market levels out and all the people who bought and could afford it are in debt forever cause there into there house more than it will be worth in ten years. and im getting richer. mad at oil buy oil stock get paid from it.

read two books the art of war, the prince, and the ten books of titus levythen we'll discuss whether iraq was good idea when you get a basic understanding and stop thinking with feelings people die every day i grew out of the inner city where i saw a war but a different war but the rules still applied. in ways iraq is not much different than SouthCentral.

[FreshNugz]

blah blah blah good or bad were past that from what ive read most of the people on here are poorly educated, the war is why economy is bad ha ha ha and its bush's fault LOL

i have studied war and we cant leave not until iraq can stand on its own and for the most part i agree with psycho although i would like to add some things. if saddams son came to power it would have been bad for the world.

and the economy oh gosh look in the mirror especially if you were a first time home buyer and got foreclosed you dumb ass motherfucker you probly vote on tax laws too. we are at an all time low because close to 80% of americans dont understand BASIC ECONOMICS (house of rep metting on c-span). exhibited by the high foreclosure rate americns dont know the differance in rates and how to calculate them and how it effects their monies its easy you never buy a stock when its at an all time high. why a house. just wait until the market levels out and all the people who bought and could afford it are in debt forever cause there into there house more than it will be worth in ten years. and im getting richer. mad at oil buy oil stock get paid from it.

read two books the art of war, the prince, and the ten books of titus levythen we'll discuss whether iraq was good idea when you get a basic understanding and stop thinking with feelings people die every day i grew out of the inner city where i saw a war but a different war but the rules still applied. in ways iraq is not much different than SouthCentral.

Please don't refer to most people here as uneducated. Speak for yourself.:wtf:

On another note, I've read all three of the books you're referring to, although I'm assuming "titus levythen" is referring to "Leviathan" by Thomas Hobbes? If not and it's really "titus levythen"..then I haven't read that..never heard of it.
But I've read everything you speak of and I still don't understand your argument...

[psychocat]

blah blah blah good or bad were past that from what ive read most of the people on here are poorly educated, the war is why economy is bad ha ha ha and its bush's fault LOL

i have studied war and we cant leave not until iraq can stand on its own and for the most part i agree with psycho although i would like to add some things. if saddams son came to power it would have been bad for the world.

and the economy oh gosh look in the mirror especially if you were a first time home buyer and got foreclosed you dumb ass motherfucker you probly vote on tax laws too. we are at an all time low because close to 80% of americans dont understand BASIC ECONOMICS (house of rep metting on c-span). exhibited by the high foreclosure rate americns dont know the differance in rates and how to calculate them and how it effects their monies its easy you never buy a stock when its at an all time high. why a house. just wait until the market levels out and all the people who bought and could afford it are in debt forever cause there into there house more than it will be worth in ten years. and im getting richer. mad at oil buy oil stock get paid from it.

read two books the art of war, the prince, and the ten books of titus levythen we'll discuss whether iraq was good idea when you get a basic understanding and stop thinking with feelings people die every day i grew out of the inner city where i saw a war but a different war but the rules still applied. in ways iraq is not much different than SouthCentral.

I would like you to explain how the war has benefited America or Iraq ?
As for those who disagree with you being uneducated could you enlighten us to your own level of education, judging by the amount of errors in your post I am guessing you struggled with highschool.
I also find your use of expletives detracts from your pretentions of being of reasonably high intelligence , an intelligent person refrains from being offensive.
I have a very good understanding of economics and America is in trouble for a number of reasons , the war in Iraq has certainly not helped the US but other factors have played a part.
The shift in economic power to Asia and eastern Europe is based on simple mathematics.
Cheap labour coupled with plenty of raw materials and the technology advancements of recent years have given China the upperhand. The Russians are also profiting from Chinas increased need for energy.

[SnSstealth]

hmmm, well my uneducated ass own many copies of the art of war, including the poem style original..Robert Greene, 48 laws of power, and Machiavelli....NOW, what the hell do those books have to do with this Iraq war anyway? i guess its a COINCIDENCE that the bushs own texas oil co. too?...the OVER $500 billion we have spent over there didnt hurt our economy....nah....or the $4 gal gas....
AND
people are just now getting stupid right? they don't understand rates...is this new? Why hasn't it been an issue before? Basic Economics just now started confusing people I guess

but hey, I am so glad I am uneducated...I should get my ass back to the herd, and follow everone else.....:wtf:

whiskeytango

[psychocat]

I question the intelligence of anyone who doesn't know the difference between they're, thier and there.
I would also like to point out that the names of people and countries always start with a capital letter and "I" is always upper case too.
Don't you just love it when someone criticises others and then goes on to show thier own ignorance.