Why I think our brains are so powerful

[SnSstealth]

i thought everyone on here was already blazed?...lol

:smokebong:
whiskeytango

[Aly_G]

wow this is the most interesting thread I've found here lol haven't been on in months until now.

Anyway, after reading about all this I came up with this theory.. maybe what happens when we die is we dream eternallly? we create our "paraidise"? haha that would be cool.. can't really say it's foolish since I could say the same about Heaven & Hell or those that think nothing will happen when you die and everything it's just blank, or those that believe in reincarnation etc etc...

Also, have you guys heard about DMT? one of the most illegal substances in our planet yet it's generated by our brain when we go to sleep everynight , when we are close to dying and apparently in the early steps of the fetus creation. Some say it's what triggers I forgot what.. but it's in the pineal gland which If i'm correct is the part of the brain we are less knowledgeable about.

Other than that.. reality i guess we'll find out eventually.. a lot of people feel everyone is connected and some friends mentioned that after trips on shrooms. Telepathy, mind tricks.. like Criss Angel he blocks pain with his mind.. there's probably so much we can do with our minds.

Maybe 2012 we will learn how to do more with it?

my 2 cents.

[Aly_G]

p.s. Interesting quote I found from reading Matrix quotes which are very interesting..

Agent Smith: Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world? Where none suffered, where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program. Entire crops were lost. Some believed we lacked the programming language to describe your perfect world. But I believe that, as a species, human beings define their reality through suffering and misery. The perfect world was a dream that your primitive cerebrum kept trying to wake up from. Which is why the Matrix was redesigned to this: the peak of your civilization.

[Coelho]

p.s. Interesting quote I found from reading Matrix quotes which are very interesting..

Agent Smith: Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world? Where none suffered, where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program. Entire crops were lost. Some believed we lacked the programming language to describe your perfect world. But I believe that, as a species, human beings define their reality through suffering and misery. The perfect world was a dream that your primitive cerebrum kept trying to wake up from. Which is why the Matrix was redesigned to this: the peak of your civilization.

Excellent quote! :thumbsup:

[40oz]

Yes... some people calls it mind, some calls it soul, spirit, whatever... but surely its real, and also non-physical.

Is it real? Do people really have a soul? I am beginning to think the correct answer to that is no. What we consider to be our soul, our "I" , is really just a relation and collection of ideas. This relation of ideas produces an identity so that easy transition between other thoughts and ideas can be had. Basically your soul (identity) is discovered by your memory of past cause and effect relations.

I know this probably makes little sense, so bear with me through my attempt to give an example. Lets say a baby is born. This baby has no idea what it is or what is going on. The baby looks at its hands, legs, and torso. The baby realizes that he has control over all these things, and that they can move positions but they stay relatively the same, and attached. The baby can conclude then from what he is able to sense that these parts are part of him and he identifies them as such. PARTS of HIM.

Now the baby is put face to face with his mother. He perceives his mother with all his senses as she gently strokes his head. He realizes that his mother is not part of him, so she must be something else...but what? The baby glances over to his right and sees his father. Again the baby does not know what to think. What are these things? Are they related?

Now that the baby has gotten a good look at the room he is in he realizes that he is surrounded by unknown objects. The hospital bed, paintings on the wall, the wall itself, everything the baby can percieve, it is all unkown to him. He has not ascribed a specific identity to anything, barley even himself. Besides the fact that he seems to have control over a mass or sensory objects that sits right under his field of vision, he has no idea who or what he is. How then, is the baby able to distinguish one thing from the other? How can he assign anything an identity if he doesn't know what anything is?

The answer is the baby is able to assign identities to certain things based on 3 relations; resemblance, contiguity and causation. To explain a little, the baby can begin to identify his mother because when he looked back at his mother, after he looked away, he noticed the object he was looking at (mom) resembled the object he was looking at before he turned his head (mom). Each time the baby looked away, then back at his mother, she remained relatively the same. Maybe her body position shifted a little, but she remained relatively the same. This is where contiguity comes into play. Causation helped the baby to understand that objects can change appearance, but still be the same object. For example over time the baby will be able to recognize that the thing he is looking at is his mother even if she changes positions or adds makeup. The baby realizes that cause of these changes is related to the environment.

So how was the baby able to identify objects, and why would he want to? And what does this have to do with not having a soul? The baby was able to assign an identity to objects because his memory stored past observations of certain objects. Over time these observations grow and they all effect eachother. The baby is able to tell a wall from a person because they are not observably similar, and he is able to tell the difference between people because certain individuals remain relatively similar over time. He is able to identify a pizza as the same pizza even after 3/4 of it have been eaten because he understands there must have been some kind of cause to make most of the pie disappear.

Because the baby is able to assign a certain identity to everything, he is able to transition between ideas so smoothly that he doesn't even realize he is transitioning. For example, wave your arms in the air. Notice anything strange? Of course you didn't, your brain is so good at transitioning between sensed objects that you don't even realize that whenever you move your arm (or whenever you move period), you are creating a whole new form or object, a object that needs to be interpreted by your brain so it can still be identified... and identified it is, as your arm. Think about it. You sitting in that chair is a totally different object than you standing or walking away from the chair. Your brain makes this transition between those two forms smooth and without any gaps so that you can keep your identity, or what many people like to call a soul.

If you read down this far I am proud of you, and if you understand what I was trying to say, well then I love you. Not just because of how hard this idea is to grasp if you have never been exposed to it before, but also because I feel that I do a horrible job of trying to explain it. If you did read down this far and don't understand, please just ask me to clear things up where they are a little hard to understand and I will be happy to try to explain it to you a little better.

So is it so bad that we don't have a "soul" or some kind of invisible entity that represents our individuality? I don't think so. In fact, this whole idea just further extends my beliefs to the idea of everything being one single collective conscience. By one conscience I mean that we (all living things, not just humans) share one common bond, and that is the bond of life, of consciousness. This single consciousness is manifested in different ways in different organisms. In essence; I am you and you are me and we are everything. The only difference between one manifestation to another is the impressions that have been made on specific manifestations' brains due to our environments. We are all one consciousness experiencing itself in many many different ways.

Also, i think "energy" is a general term... i think there are several "kinds" of energy... like the "physical" energy in the physical "plane", and also non-physical energies in the non-physical "planes", so our mind, soul or whatever would be made of non-physical energies as well.
(I wonder if my physics teachers heard me talking such things... they would be VERY disappointed... )

But what is physical energy if there is no mind to perceive it? To feel it? It's just energy.

[Gonzo54]

we actually use 100% of our brain, just at different times

[Coelho]

But I believe that, as a species, human beings define their reality through suffering and misery. The perfect world was a dream that your primitive cerebrum kept trying to wake up from.

I think its very true... we even say "its too good to be true"... but i never heard anybody saying "its too bad to be true"... cause we actually think only bad things can be real, and the good ones are unreal... why does is so?
Whenever i tell people that is possible to live a happy and painless life, they think im a dreamer, and that i live in a world of fantasy. (Well... most of time im stoned, but it is not the issue here )
But its all in our mind... to be suffering or to be happy is much a matter of choice. One can choose a path that will make one happy, or one can choose a path that will make one suffer. The effort to choose is the same. But most people chooses the suffering path.
I wonder what Buddha would say about it...

Is it real? Do people really have a soul? I am beginning to think the correct answer to that is no. What we consider to be our soul, our "I" , is really just a relation and collection of ideas. This relation of ideas produces an identity so that easy transition between other thoughts and ideas can be had. Basically your soul (identity) is discovered by your memory of past cause and effect relations.

(...)

If you read down this far I am proud of you, and if you understand what I was trying to say, well then I love you.

Well... i did read, and did understand... and i love you too lol!
Anyway... after done some reading, i concluded my own concept of "soul" is very different from most peoples concept, which is what youve described.
So, i agree completly that the "usual" description of soul, which is what you described, is not real indeed, but as you said its only a relation of ideas.
What i call "soul", and maybe its what you call "mind", is the immaterial, non-physical "thing" that is "behind" the brain, recieving data from it, the same way the brain recieves data from the sensory organs.
It is not the "I", as it is a product of the brain, like you explained. Its something else. Its very hard to describe...
Some time ago i noticed that my mind was in fact two. One of them was the usual "I" we all have. The another one was what i could call my "true" consciousness, as it could percieve what i called "I" from outside... like if the "I" were a robot that my consciousness could control and interact with it, but without being involved in it... i noticed it when i was stoned, and felt like i was a bit "higher" than my body (actually higher, maybe one feet or so), and that i was not my body, and i was not my thougts. I was something else, which could observe my actions and thoughts... and this "thing" is what i call "soul".
Also, during some experiences with weed + (some unmentionable inhalant) for some instants i could only percieve the world, without being an "I"... like... i would see my room, i would hear the noises outside... but only to percieve. I didnt know i was a person, i didnt remembered anything, in fact i hadnt any thoughts... i only percieved the world around me. I hadnt any notion of time also... the only thing that existed was the present moment. There was not an "I" which were conscious that it was percieving. There was only perception. I think during this experiences i noticed clearly what was my "soul", and how it existed apart from thoughts and from the "I", and yet percieved the world.
Im sure what ive wrote is at least very confusing... but its the best description i can give.

Another thing... you mentioned the babies perception. I would like just to add that the perception of the world as we usually do (seeing the world in terms of solid objects) is a learned skill. A baby can percieve the world in inconcievable ways to us, as their brains were not conditioned to percieve the world the way we adults do. Through the socialization process, the child learns to percieve the world as we adults do, and when its old enough it forgets how was to percieve the world in another ways and thinks (like everybody else) the the way it percieves the world is THE only way to do it. But it is not. Through mind alterations like meditation, or use of psychedelics, we can percieve the world in other ways than the usual, and it shows the arbitrary-ness of our everyday worlds perception.

So is it so bad that we don't have a "soul" or some kind of invisible entity that represents our individuality? I don't think so. In fact, this whole idea just further extends my beliefs to the idea of everything being one single collective conscience. By one conscience I mean that we (all living things, not just humans) share one common bond, and that is the bond of life, of consciousness. This single consciousness is manifested in different ways in different organisms. In essence; I am you and you are me and we are everything. The only difference between one manifestation to another is the impressions that have been made on specific manifestations' brains due to our environments. We are all one consciousness experiencing itself in many many different ways.

Well... i already did read many ideas like yours... up to now i cant say if i believe or not in it. It makes sense, but i have not any personal experience which enable me to agree or disagree with it.
If my plans were sucessfull, maybe at 4/19 i will have an answer to it. (Im almost sure you know what i mean )

But what is physical energy if there is no mind to perceive it? To feel it? It's just energy.

Yes... and yet it moves the universe. Or rather, it is the universe. I believe we humans are not the only conscious beings. I believe there were another ones before us, and there will be other after us. And i also believe the universe itself exists with or without us. So, i believe the energy exists independently of we were aware of it. Or even its the energy which enables us to be aware of anything, including energy itself.

[40oz]

Also, during some experiences with weed + (some unmentionable inhalant) for some instants i could only percieve the world, without being an "I"... like... i would see my room, i would hear the noises outside... but only to percieve. I didnt know i was a person, i didnt remembered anything, in fact i hadnt any thoughts... i only percieved the world around me. I hadnt any notion of time also... the only thing that existed was the present moment. There was not an "I" which were conscious that it was percieving. There was only perception. I think during this experiences i noticed clearly what was my "soul", and how it existed apart from thoughts and from the "I", and yet percieved the world.

I have felt this exact feeling, many times actually and all under the influence of certain psychedelic substances. The only one besides weed which I think I am allowed to talk about is salvia. I have had some of the most mind blowing experiences using that sage, and one of the most intense experiences was the first time I used it. A few seconds after I took the first hit, as I was still exhaling the smoke, I slipped into some kind of a cosmic daze which there is no possible way to describe in words. The last thing I remember is seeing my friend laughing at me, probably because I was drooling all over the place. Time at this point meant nothing to me, but I am guessing that after about 2 mins. I woke up from the cosmic haze and became aware of my surroundings again.

I was aware of my surroundings, but of very little else. I didn't know what I was, what I was doing, or even really what I was looking at and what it all meant. I just couldn't figure out what "this" was (by "this" I mean my awareness). I remember I sorta looked down and saw the chair I was sitting in, so I assumed that I was a chair (and this made perfect sense to me at the time). It took me a good minute or so to realize that I was a person, a person sitting down in a chair with a little group of friends around me. Just like the experience you described, for a few minuets I had no identity, no ego. I was just consciousness. It was a crazy feeling, and I think it offers a lot of insight into the workings of the mind.

Another thing... you mentioned the babies perception. I would like just to add that the perception of the world as we usually do (seeing the world in terms of solid objects) is a learned skill. A baby can percieve the world in inconcievable ways to us, as their brains were not conditioned to percieve the world the way we adults do. Through the socialization process, the child learns to percieve the world as we adults do, and when its old enough it forgets how was to percieve the world in another ways and thinks (like everybody else) the the way it percieves the world is THE only way to do it.

I'm glad you said something about the socialization process of babies. I omitted it from my example because I thought it would make the whole thing even more confusing for your every day average pot head to understand, plus it would have made my post another 3 or 4 paragraphs longer. The baby in my example would have been a super baby with the mental capacity of an adult, but with the blank mind of a newborn. Everything we know about socializing and making sense of the world has been set up by previously existing humans and passed on to us.

I think this is where the line between mentally ill and mentally sane gets fuzzy. Really when you think about it you only really consider a person to be crazy if their social patterns and cognition are different from your own or the norm. If you don't want to be institutionalized, you better think the same way as everyone else, or at least be good at fitting into social norms.

If my plans were sucessfull, maybe at 4/19 i will have an answer to it. (Im almost sure you know what i mean )

Haha yes. It will be a bicycle day to remember.

I believe we humans are not the only conscious beings. I believe there were another ones before us, and there will be other after us. And i also believe the universe itself exists with or without us. So, i believe the energy exists independently of we were aware of it. Or even its the energy which enables us to be aware of anything, including energy itself.

That is an interesting view. I especially like the last sentence. I have never really been able to bring myself to believe in aliens, although I don't doubt that life out there is possible, I just feel that trying to explain anything with the idea of aliens is just fantasy speculation at this point in time (but really, what isn't). I'm not sure if that is what you were getting at with the first sentence, but if not, just let me know.

What you say about there being another conscience before us however, I have been thinking about a lot lately. I was going to write a little ditty about my thoughts on that idea, but as I was typing it out I realized I still have a lot of stuff to think about and I still need to organize my thoughts a little more so I don't say something completely insane or stupid. I will get to it though, this subject interests me.

[WaZ]

I think its very true... we even say "its too good to be true"... but i never heard anybody saying "its too bad to be true"... cause we actually think only bad things can be real, and the good ones are unreal... why does is so?

What about "it's too bad to be true" in the form of shocked disbelief?

Yes... and yet it moves the universe. Or rather, it is the universe. I believe we humans are not the only conscious beings. I believe there were another ones before us, and there will be other after us. And i also believe the universe itself exists with or without us. So, i believe the energy exists independently of we were aware of it. Or even its the energy which enables us to be aware of anything, including energy itself.

Well, that opens up a whole new thread of conversation about M Theory, branes, the Drake Equation, Fermi's Paradox, et al.

[samostalan]

Does anyone else here love exercising their mind? Nevermind.. I'm sure the majority of you do. :jointsmile: