Copper Oxide (II) production question

[jelloscooter]

I've recently been using a little portable vaporizer (http://boards.cannabis.com/cannabis-...y-out-imo.html)

The construction of said vaporizer chamber is said to be copper with gold plating. The gold plating is there, but there seem to be extremely minutely raised bubbles on the surface inside the chamber now. They've been starting to slowly accumulate, the few large ones beeing about 1mm in diameter and raised maybe 0.002-0.003" of an inch. Pretty small... and dont seem to be affected much by rubbing a fingernail over them.

But is this copper oxide? Or some product of the THC boiling and getting under the gold plating somehow by means of seapage? Or some gold reactant even?

Is that enough to worry about or am I just paranoid?

jelloscooter Reviewed by jelloscooter on 03-04-2008. Copper Oxide (II) production question I've recently been using a little portable vaporizer (http://boards.cannabis.com/cannabis-com-lounge/149713-try-out-imo.html) The construction of said vaporizer chamber is said to be copper with gold plating. The gold plating is there, but there seem to be extremely minutely raised bubbles on the surface inside the chamber now. They've been starting to slowly accumulate, the few large ones beeing about 1mm in diameter and raised maybe 0.002-0.003" of an inch. Pretty small... and dont seem to Rating: 5

[Coelho]

Well... the gold is a noble metal, which means it usually dont reacts... so we can rule out the bubbles being some gold compound.
But its hard to say what it can be without having more informations... could you post a picture of it in which this bubbles can be seen? So we could think better about what it could be.

[jelloscooter]

Sadly I don't have a camera because Im on break, but there are about 7-8 of these slightly domed bubbles about 1mm wide, and maybe 50 or so that are 1/4mm wide. They aren't tall enough to really disturb with any poking implement... i managed to collapse one with a fingernail and it just flattened out with the most microscopic wrinkle.

[vapefiend]

I would email Vapman- [email protected], and Vaporstore [email protected] about your issue. I know that Vaporstore is very good about responding.

[budcronicindo]

Thats no good bro. Copper is some bad shit for you. Not including the shit they add to the copper to change its properties. I wouldn't smoke out of it anymore.

[Coelho]

Thats no good bro. Copper is some bad shit for you. Not including the shit they add to the copper to change its properties. I wouldn't smoke out of it anymore.

Well... its true that some copper compounds are toxic, but the temperatures reached into a vaporizer are WAY too low to vaporize any usual copper compound... so, im sure you dont need to worry about poisoning by this small bubbles, whatever they may be.

And, much probably, this bubbles are just an effect of different thermical dilatation between the gold plating and the layer of metal below it. So i think you really shouldnt worry about this. :thumbsup:

[jelloscooter]

Hey thanks for the responses, I'll email these guys and see what they have to say.

[jelloscooter]

Well, I recieved response (2 emails) very quickly straight from Vapman. Here they are:
--------------------------------------------------------------
Hello


On the second page of the manual for the vapman is written: When the copper bowl gets severly overheated( 600°C/1100°F)
the gold coating will flake off. The vapman is still fully functional without the gold coating.
Your vapman got overheated severly, that means it got heated up about twice as long as indicated and now the gold coating is
peeling off. Copper is used in lot of things of our daily live, like coins, hot water pipes, pans.....ect. and you dont have to worry
about toxic chemicals coming off metals at these low temperatures, otherwise we would have sever problems everywhere.
If metals would decompose at these temperatures, Volcano could not use an aluminium block to heat up the air, or we could
not fry meat in metal pans or use copper for hot water pipes. I let you know that i personally use a vapman without the gold coating
for about three years every day and i checked with the microscope several times if i could see traces of metal disappearing, but
there is nothing i can see, and i invite everybody to check it for themselves. I hope i did anwer your question.


Kind regards


Rene Balli
--------------------------------------------------------------
Hello again


There is one more thing i want to say about copper. Copper is together with tin, gold and silver
one of the metals first used in the history of man, that means since at least 10`000 years!!
Do you know any other substances which have been tested over such a long period?
You are not the first person beeing worried about copper used in vaporizers and i think it is
good to think about the safety of devices we use in our live. What puzzles me is, no one
seems to worry about using PVC and red plastic glues or teflon in vaporizers like Vapir or a
lot of others do. A fact is that plastic does decompose at quite low temperatures, i have seen
Vapir vaporizers where the plastic around the hot part was melted because the thermostat or
the fan was not working properly. Just because of that risk we are using only natural materials
around the hot parts. I `ve seen that you posted your question in some web-forum and i would
appreciate it a lot if you would tell the people in this forum what i told you, because we stand
for the safety of our vaporizers in any case. By the way we make vaporizers for over 8 years
already and we never had a problem as far as safety goes. Thank you for you attention.


Best, Rene Balli
--------------------------------------------------------------

So it sounds like I should be good to go. I probably have overheated the element a bit at some point. Still wondering what type of gas is being stored in those little bubbles, but I guess if the gold plating has a natural tendency to slip at high temperatures, it might just be air?

[Coelho]

I `ve seen that you posted your question in some web-forum

LOL!!! They also visit cann.com!

So it sounds like I should be good to go. I probably have overheated the element a bit at some point. Still wondering what type of gas is being stored in those little bubbles, but I guess if the gold plating has a natural tendency to slip at high temperatures, it might just be air?

Probably... even cause i cant think of how another gas (whatever it would be) would appear there...
Anyway, im glad that they answered so fast and in this reassuring way... so you can keep vaporizing without any worry! :rastasmoke::stoned::thumbsup:

[jelloscooter]

I also emailed Copper Development Association - www.copper.org - Info on copper and its alloys. about this same issue, and this is what they had to say about it:

Your question was: The heating element on the inside of a smoking device I own is made from copper, with gold plating. At high temperatures (around 1100* F), the gold plating starts to slip from the copper surface and cause pockets between the gold and copper with what seems to be a gas occupying the volume. The largest of these bubbles are around .025" in diameter, and .005" raised.

I am worried that the gas occupying the bubbles is Copper Oxide(II), and may be a health concern. Could copper oxide (II) be created in this environment?

Response:

I doubt that either cupric oxide CuO or cuprous oxide Cu2O would react in this way. The oxides of copper are not found in the gasseous state. I suspect the gold plate is there to prevent oxidation of the contacts.

As for any health issues copper is an essential element for humans, plants and animals. Please see the articles on the CDA web site under "Copper and Human Health" and "Copper and the Environment".

Regards,
Lou Lozano