Clinton/Obama Debate.....LMAO!!!

[thecurious1]

And most countries are still behind that same cause in Afghanistan.

WE destabilized the region? LOL...How about Hamas, Hezbullah, IRAN? 80% of Iraqs population were happy as hell when we invaded.



So where are Al-Quada's training bases in Afghanistan again...oh yeah, bombed out! Ya can't say they have a larger presence just because there are more of them buried there than in other lands.

BOTH China and Russia voted yes for a third round of sanctions against Iran so I find this to be false also. Not to mention the assistance that China has provided regarding the N. Korea nuclear challenge.



This is the same Venezuela that has tanks at its Columbian border because they killed the leader of the leading terrorist group in Columbia. Yeah, Hugo is a hell of a guy.



If you call strapping a suicide vest on a woman increasing enrollment have at it. History has dictated when an army begins to use women and children they are in BAD shape for members.



Get the enviromentalists to back off long enough for us to build some new refineries here in the states and watch the price of gas drop. You'll notice that when the price does start to drop either Iran or Venezuela acts up in some fashion in order to bump prices back up on a barrel of oil. Oil pricing is based on speculation, not supply.



We have to deal with assholes on oil and yes they are getting rich but that has NOTHING to do with Americans losing their homes. If you have a monthly take home income of $1500 you can't afford a $1000 a month house payment. People are allowed to overextend themselves by a banking system that was more than happy to forclose on property because it was would have probably been worth more money and it was a sellers market.

Have a good one!:s4:

- No doubt that other countries are still dedicated to Afghanistan but the global support for America and its policies has diminished since the invasion of Iraq.

The fact that Al Queda is gaining strength in Afghanistan again has been known for some time now. It's a reality.

- Of course Russia and China are going to side with the global community when it comes to sanctions, that doesn't mean these countries are not allies. Doesn't mean that China and Russia don't SELL arms to these countries.

Obviously there is no strategic value for Russia and China to further themselves from the international community. This is politics at its best ..... sugar coating on the outside, shit on the inside.

- No one said that Hugo was a figure of admiration now did they? Just because he isn't a "friend" of Bush and America doesn't mean we should just label a country as "evil" and shut down diplomacy.
This makes things worse, not better. As evidence by Hugo's increasing anti-american stances.

- Anyone who actually believes there are LESS dangerous terrorist today than there were in the past must be blind. We are seeing an increased capture rate of suspected terrorist ... MORE attacks throughout the world ... increased need for security ... etc etc.

How can anyone honestly believe that continued violence, increased tension, and continued destabilization inside the middle east won't breed more terrorists? You think that just because they've recently used women in bombings that its a sign that the terrorists are going away? LMFAO! Hate to break it to you but terrorists groups have used women and children for a long time.. Nothing new there ......

- Obviously you don't understand the history of oil. Building new refineries in the US will not solve our problems. America has already reached its production peak. (back in the 1970s). We are slowly and slowly producing less oil each year. Why? Because there ISN'T ANYMORE.

The middle east is the ONLY region that has yet to officially reach the peak of its oil production but many believe it is either here or already come to past. (considering the giant leap in gas prices the last 10 years).

The solution is to design alternative energy systems. I find it hard to believe that America was able to harness the power of the atom in a weapon over 60 years ago .... yet in that time we are incapable of producing engines that run on something other than oil. Corruption doesn't like change.

You don't think oil prices effect the economy? :wtf: You don't think they cause companies to decrease overhead and cut jobs? You don't think people losing their jobs cause them to lose their homes? :wtf: Obviously it's not the only reason .... but you honestly can't make a connection?

In February ... my old lady spent $350 for gas. For many people .. that's a car payment ... For many people ... that's a rent/house payment.

So yes, oil prices certainly effect American jobs. To say otherwise is incredibly insane.

[Psycho4Bud]

- No doubt that other countries are still dedicated to Afghanistan but the global support for America and its policies has diminished since the invasion of Iraq.

Recent elections in both Germany and France proves otherwise. Living in the past are we?

The fact that Al Queda is gaining strength in Afghanistan again has been known for some time now. It's a reality.

A little quote from the Outlaw Josey Walesyin' ain't much of a living boy.
Al-Qaeda releases web eulogy of Afghanistan strategist - USATODAY.com

The only place they're gaining strength is in the underworld.

- No one said that Hugo was a figure of admiration now did they? Just because he isn't a "friend" of Bush and America doesn't mean we should just label a country as "evil" and shut down diplomacy.
This makes things worse, not better. As evidence by Hugo's increasing anti-american stances.

Not to mention his anti-Columbian and Brazilian stances. The only people he does get along with are the petty dictators from Cuba, Iran and N. Korea.

- Anyone who actually believes there are LESS dangerous terrorist today than there were in the past must be blind. We are seeing an increased capture rate of suspected terrorist ... MORE attacks throughout the world ... increased need for security ... etc etc.

How can anyone honestly believe that continued violence, increased tension, and continued destabilization inside the middle east won't breed more terrorists? You think that just because they've recently used women in bombings that its a sign that the terrorists are going away? LMFAO! Hate to break it to you but terrorists groups have used women and children for a long time.. Nothing new there ......

So do you REALLY believe that you can sit and negotiate with a group that feels the entire world should be under Sharia Law? LOL...only in a Dems dream would that EVER happen.

- Obviously you don't understand the history of oil. Building new refineries in the US will not solve our problems. America has already reached its production peak. (back in the 1970s). We are slowly and slowly producing less oil each year. Why? Because there ISN'T ANYMORE.

The middle east is the ONLY region that has yet to officially reach the peak of its oil production but many believe it is either here or already come to past. (considering the giant leap in gas prices the last 10 years).

Obviously you don't understand the relationship between refineries, crude oil, and the price of gas. Iran is oil rich...why is their gas so expensive and being rationed? Lack of refineries!

The solution is to design alternative energy systems. I find it hard to believe that America was able to harness the power of the atom in a weapon over 60 years ago .... yet in that time we are incapable of producing engines that run on something other than oil. Corruption doesn't like change.

This is true but if you expect the front runners we have to make the change your living in a dream. Clinton and McCain are a definate part of the current system and if anyone checks out Obama on health care knows that he's as corrupt, if not more, than the others.

You don't think oil prices effect the economy? You don't think they cause companies to decrease overhead and cut jobs? You don't think people losing their jobs cause them to lose their homes? Obviously it's not the only reason .... but you honestly can't make a connection?

In February ... my old lady spent $350 for gas. For many people .. that's a car payment ... For many people ... that's a rent/house payment.

So yes, oil prices certainly effect American jobs. To say otherwise is incredibly insane.

It does have an effect but not as much as people overextending their own credit. Earning less than $40,000/year does NOT equate into owning a $200,000 home and also being $5000 in credit card debt.

Have a good one!:s4:

[thecurious1]

Recent elections in both Germany and France proves otherwise. Living in the past are we?




A little quote from the Outlaw Josey Walesyin' ain't much of a living boy.
Al-Qaeda releases web eulogy of Afghanistan strategist - USATODAY.com

The only place they're gaining strength is in the underworld.



Not to mention his anti-Columbian and Brazilian stances. The only people he does get along with are the petty dictators from Cuba, Iran and N. Korea.



So do you REALLY believe that you can sit and negotiate with a group that feels the entire world should be under Sharia Law? LOL...only in a Dems dream would that EVER happen.



Obviously you don't understand the relationship between refineries, crude oil, and the price of gas. Iran is oil rich...why is their gas so expensive and being rationed? Lack of refineries!



This is true but if you expect the front runners we have to make the change your living in a dream. Clinton and McCain are a definate part of the current system and if anyone checks out Obama on health care knows that he's as corrupt, if not more, than the others.



It does have an effect but not as much as people overextending their own credit. Earning less than $40,000/year does NOT equate into owning a $200,000 home and also being $5000 in credit card debt.

Have a good one!:s4:

- How do elections in France and Germany prove that America's global image hasn't been tarnished because of the Iraq War? It doesn't ... Sounds like you are in denial.

- If Afghanistan doesn't have a problem with Al Queda ... then why is American pressuring NATO to increase involvement as we sit here debating? Why do government officials continue to warn about the increasing Al Queda presence and the return of Opium production in the country?

I guess everyone else but you is being fooled ...

- Using diplomacy to settle a situation is much better than putting them in the same group as a country you invaded.

- Again, the middle east is PEAKING in its oil production. The United States has ALREADY passed the peak of its oil production. I already stated this. But spending billions-trillions of dollars to build new refineries isn't going to solve anything when the oil runs dry. The money SHOULD be spent to create alternative methods of conventional power. Like I already said ... if the US learned to harness atomic power over 60 years ago, you can't tell me we can't be running machines that run on something other than oil. Heck, with enough time and money ... you could build a car that runs on farts. Heck, France is currently building cars that run on compressed air. 200-300 miles on a tank if I remember right.

- The government lost touch with the people a long time ago ... If you have to be rich to be president ... you can't vouch for the middle class or the poor. There's something wrong when tens of millions of dollars are spent to try and win a job that pays $400,000 a year.

- If people HAVE jobs ... they can continue to pay their debts.
JOBS JOBS JOBS! That's the key. Doesn't matter how much money they owe .. if they have a decent wage job, they can make the payments. What has happened is: Creditors were giving "loose" loans ... those people are seeing their jobs moving over seas, closed, or layoffs ... people no longer have the means to pay their debt and bills. Yes, debt is ultimately bad for America ... but it isn't what is choking the economy. Industry leaving our cities imho is the main culprit in the slowing economy.

In my hometown with a population of 7-10,000 people ... there have been 5 factories in the past few years close alone. That was a massive blow to the community. Not because they owed $5,000 on their credit cards .... but because they saw nearly all of their industry shut down quickly.

[Psycho4Bud]

- How do elections in France and Germany prove that America's global image hasn't been tarnished because of the Iraq War? It doesn't ... Sounds like you are in denial.

So when the people of other countries elect a more conservative style government that openly supports the U.S., it isn't an issue as to world opinion? Who was tarnished more by the Iraq war; the U.S. or the ones found dirty in the food for oil? Seems that those leaders have been replaced.

- If Afghanistan doesn't have a problem with Al Queda ... then why is American pressuring NATO to increase involvement as we sit here debating? Why do government officials continue to warn about the increasing Al Queda presence and the return of Opium production in the country?

Should the U.S. and Canada hold the majority of the responsibility? This is in NATOs backyard.

They did have a safe haven to regroup in Pakistan but they pretty much outlived their welcome there too. We're pushing them out of Iraq, seems that Afghanistan will be their last line of defense.

- Using diplomacy to settle a situation is much better than putting them in the same group as a country you invaded.

Once again....try to use diplomacy on a group that's out to rule the world by a religious law. Won't happen! Likewise, Saddam was a leader with intentions on doing another 9-11 on us...once again, won't happen.

In my hometown with a population of 7-10,000 people ... there have been 5 factories in the past few years close alone. That was a massive blow to the community. Not because they owed $5,000 on their credit cards .... but because they saw nearly all of their industry shut down quickly.

I can understand your frustration here. My town went through the same thing years back but other businesses in plastics and computors have moved in now.

The main question was whether or not we're safer now than before. How many attacks have been successful on U.S. soil since 9-11? Things such as FISA and the Patriot Act have stopped some of that crap but some just don't want to believe it. Unless it happens, it's just an illusion.

Have a good one!:s4:

[thecurious1]

So when the people of other countries elect a more conservative style government that openly supports the U.S., it isn't an issue as to world opinion? Who was tarnished more by the Iraq war; the U.S. or the ones found dirty in the food for oil? Seems that those leaders have been replaced.



Should the U.S. and Canada hold the majority of the responsibility? This is in NATOs backyard.

They did have a safe haven to regroup in Pakistan but they pretty much outlived their welcome there too. We're pushing them out of Iraq, seems that Afghanistan will be their last line of defense.



Once again....try to use diplomacy on a group that's out to rule the world by a religious law. Won't happen! Likewise, Saddam was a leader with intentions on doing another 9-11 on us...once again, won't happen.



I can understand your frustration here. My town went through the same thing years back but other businesses in plastics and computors have moved in now.

The main question was whether or not we're safer now than before. How many attacks have been successful on U.S. soil since 9-11? Things such as FISA and the Patriot Act have stopped some of that crap but some just don't want to believe it. Unless it happens, it's just an illusion.

Have a good one!:s4:

- Just because the people elect a more conservative government that's more Pro-US (most of our allies ARE ... duh) doesn't mean that people around the world see America in a better light than pre-Iraq. That's like saying that because America voted Bush president twice ... we all agreed with the Iraq war. The country was divided (and still is). There is more to someone getting elected than their stance on international alliances.

- My point being ... if Al Queda is not gaining strength in Afghanistan like you claim, then WHY do we require more military assistance in the area? Why are officials going on tv talking about this problem? If Afghanistan is Al Quedas "last line of defense" like you just said ... then one would think that Afghanistan is Al Queda's stronghold ...

- In a perfect world ... all countries deserve the respect of the international community and for them to acknowledge their sovereignty. My meaning being... America should always extend its hand at the table of diplomacy to nations who have not yet posed an emanate threat to our people. Turning a blind eye to these countries and pretending "we're above it" does nothing more than anger these government even more. And perhaps worse, these nation's citizens don't seek a war with America.

Governments wage wars on behalf of the people ... but seldom will you find people who truly want to kill others. People fight and die for leaders who never have to know what its like to see the mayhem... American, Canadian, Iranian, Korean, Chinese ... most of us are just PEOPLE ... who want to live in PEACE ... and enjoy LIFE.

P.S. As far as I've ever read ... there isn't any proof that Saddam was planning to attack the US. There WAS a document suggesting that Bin Laden would however.

- Just because America has not been attacked since 9-11 doesn't mean that we are safer. How long had it been since US soil had been attacked BEFORE 9-11? I guess we all are allowed to have our own opinion. But I think most people share the same view as I. A view that if we maintain this course of international diplomacy, America will become more and more threatened. (Hence, less secure)

Sure, current legislation has helped spoil terrorist attacks ... I can buy it. But do you HONESTLY believe America wasn't a target prior to 9-11? Both assassination and terrorist attacks have been spoiled LONG before the Patriot Act. (HINT ... that's why we have agencies like the CIA and NSA)

[Psycho4Bud]

- Just because the people elect a more conservative government that's more Pro-US (most of our allies ARE ... duh) doesn't mean that people around the world see America in a better light than pre-Iraq. That's like saying that because America voted Bush president twice ... we all agreed with the Iraq war. The country was divided (and still is). There is more to someone getting elected than their stance on international alliances.

True but I'm sure it was a big issue. What about our "world image" when we're the first on on the scene after disasters? LOL...let someone like Ron Paul get in and you'll see how unpopular we can get when all aid, assistance, etc. is shut off.

- My point being ... if Al Queda is not gaining strength in Afghanistan like you claim, then WHY do we require more military assistance in the area? Why are officials going on tv talking about this problem? If Afghanistan is Al Quedas "last line of defense" like you just said ... then one would think that Afghanistan is Al Queda's stronghold ...

Being a stronghold and gaining strength are two different things. After all, at the end of WW2 the Nazi's could have called Berlin their stronghold. More troops doesn't always equate to battle. There is also the issue of training Afghan forces, rebuilding, etc.....not to mention sharing the responsibility.

- In a perfect world ... all countries deserve the respect of the international community and for them to acknowledge their sovereignty. My meaning being... America should always extend its hand at the table of diplomacy to nations who have not yet posed an emanate threat to our people. Turning a blind eye to these countries and pretending "we're above it" does nothing more than anger these government even more. And perhaps worse, these nation's citizens don't seek a war with America.

P.S. As far as I've ever read ... there isn't any proof that Saddam was planning to attack the US. There WAS a document suggesting that Bin Laden would however.

Here's the article: CNN.com - Russia 'warned U.S. about Saddam' - Jun 18, 2004

- Just because America has not been attacked since 9-11 doesn't mean that we are safer. How long had it been since US soil had been attacked BEFORE 9-11? I guess we all are allowed to have our own opinion. But I think most people share the same view as I. A view that if we maintain this course of international diplomacy, America will become more and more threatened. (Hence, less secure)

Sure, current legislation has helped spoil terrorist attacks ... I can buy it. But do you HONESTLY believe America wasn't a target prior to 9-11? Both assassination and terrorist attacks have been spoiled LONG before the Patriot Act. (HINT ... that's why we have agencies like the CIA and NSA)

Your two statements contradict each other. If current legislation has spoiled attacks then I say that we are safer now than before. We were a target, are a target.....the difference is that now we are harder to get to due to current legislation and that they are way to busy dodging "bullets" for lack of better terms. As it's been said, "Better to fight them there than here".

By the way, it's been a pleasure debating this with ya. Debating politics can get very heated and due to site policy personal attacks aren't allowed. You've kept it real and to the point without that.....much respect!:thumbsup:

Have a good one!:s4:

[fishman3811]

P4B Canada elected a conservative government not because we wanted closer ties with America but because the Liberal government was caught in a scandal that brought them down.To say that France and Germany elected conservative governments because the people want closer ties with America and their policies is a laugh.Also the Taliban is not been forced out of Pakistan and the Pastun region is where they are thriving.Most high ranking generals in the Pakistani army are sympathatic to the Taliban and have no will to fight them.

[Psycho4Bud]

Never mentioned anything regarding Canada.....nice to have the assist over in Afghanistan though.:thumbsup:

As for France and Germany....both of the candidates ran on a platform of better ties to the U.S. so it was a factor in their elections.

I know their regrouping up in the hills of Pakistan known better as "no mans land". Kind of strange since they control Afghanistan huh?

Have a good one!:s4:

[fishman3811]

LOL they control all areas that dont have a soldiar on it.But as soon as that soldiar leaves the Taliban control it.I dont know if youve noticed but Frances president.his approval rating is at an all time low.I guess when u lay with dogs....................

[Psycho4Bud]

Can you be specific on which areas that coallition forces left and the Taliban took over. Your one article stated that the Taliban had control over the country....now this? LMAO!

French Prez:
Current rating at 36% but why don't they love him?
Having pledged to use his presidency to combat economic fears, Sarkozy is seemingly paying for a January declaration that the "state coffers are empty" and that the government should not be expected to come up with a hand-out.
Poll:French President Sarkozy's Approval Ratings Plunge To 36%-AFP (News Search) | SmartMoney.com

I guess the pro-welfare crowd isn't limited to just one country.

Have a good one!:s4: