*Breaking News* Majority leader Reid clears hurdle for Bush/Cheney spying bill

[mfqr]

Question authority for once..? Sure. As long as it's done intelligently and responsibly using facts not inuendo.

And what facts do you have to support your belief of what is currently happening? Clearly you must have some for-sure facts backing the justification of this bill.

Otherwise ya just sound like another Rosie O'Donnell spouting her 'government conspiracies are everywhere' philosophy.

Ohhh, I don't want to sound like her, so I won't be suspicious of our government anymore! LOL

mfqr: you mentioned "rather than giving into fabricated evidence of terrorist plots, and scary sleeper cells "
Fort Dix ring a bell? How about Richard Reid? World Trade Center bombings 1 & 2?

Of course the WTC bombings (including the one in 1993) was *real*, however, who they blame, and how they say it was done could very well be fabricated. What makes you so sure you have all the truth in it? Because they said that's how it happened? It would be wise to take a good look, and see who has benefitted from 9/11.

Cannabis legalization isn't the only issue I take into account when pondering a selection to the most powerful and prominent position in the world. Hair style counts, too.

Being the president of the U.S. isn't the most powerful and prominent position in the world... being a Rothschild is.

[Rusty Trichome]

You bore me with your 'truths'. Been a nice way to pass a saturday, tho.
Ciao.

[mfqr]

You bore me with your 'truths'. Been a nice way to pass a saturday, tho.
Ciao.

The truth is, truth is scarce. That is the only truth I know.

I don't think I know all of the truths, but I certainly know that the truth is scarce on all levels of society. You cannot sit here and tell me that because the government said "so and so did it, and it happened <this> way," without providing evidence to *you*, that you know the truth of it. Which is my point... and which is also why people question it. It's why I question it. Do you have the intelligence reports? Have you seen any evidence other than biased news reports on television?

Do you really understand the nature of power?
Do you really think that with this bill, they will only target terrorists when tapping a line, when in fact they do not know who the terrorists are? This would mean that they would have to consider anyone, and everyone, a possible terrorist. This is why this gives immunity to telecommunications corporations to monitor phone calls. Do you understand the nature of this? Do you think they would actually give this power up? Where is the line drawn, Rusty? With the War on Terror, how can you be so sure that this will ever stop until there is nothing more to take?
Maybe if you read up on some history, you will realize that we really are in some trouble here. It is cowardly, and unintelligent to give up freedom for security.

[mfqr]

Also, do you actually think that someone who is planning on carrying out a terrorist attack is going to talk on their phone with a standard service? That's probably the easiest way to get caught. Dur. This bill targets citizens, under the guise of targeting terrorists... under the name of the eternal War on Terror.

[Rusty Trichome]

I'm pretty sure that I never said that I have the evidence...I was simply asking to be provided the evidence for some of the outrageously paranoid and naive statements.
But frankly...this sound like all the other conspiracy theorists psychobabble. Irresponsible and immature. Or not...whatever.

Meanwhile...I grow my pot, help others, and will vote for the most qualified. Kinds sucks we come from a different philosophy...but I'll never dance to the beat of your drummer.:jointsmile:

[Mr. Clandestine]

Mr C, I think that much has been said already in numerous posts on this thread as well as others., I will however cite examples of your tax dollars at work,the Gulf of Tonkin incident, Watergate, Iran/contra scandal, leaking CIA operative's name(high treason), expermenting with the effects of syphillis on US citizens by injection without their knowlege, Katrina, also the govt's primary job, to protect the nation and it's citzens even when warned "BIn Laden ddetermined to attack the US" goes unheeded, as reported by API, BBC,Rueters, and many other news outlets the W administration told 935 lies to justify an illegal war. I could go on & on but people like you will not question the gov't even as they are waiting in line for their cup of kool-aid. I believe that you ,my friend, have conered the market on ignorance, and as for paranoia, when was the last time you were attacked by "terrorists"?

No offense, Wicker B, but this is the same far-left thinking that I've heard a thousand times before, and I'm sure the buck isn't going to stop with you. And I'm the kool-aid drinker? Give me a break...

Your dull rhetoric is still as misinformed as your dull rhetoric has constantly been, but I can't say I don't give you credit for consistency. Constantly thinking the world is conspiring against you, constantly labeling anyone with a sense of patriotism as an "unquestioning kool-aid drinker", constantly running your mouth about the past with little concern for the future.

My tax dollars have funded a lot of programs that have benefited you, but you only choose to see the negatives from our countries past and refuse to focus on the good things that our government has done for us. So, in essence, you were calling me naive for trusting that our government isn't conspiring against me...right? That doesn't make me look naive, but instead makes you look imbecilic and downright paranoid.

But, again, it's your right as an American citizen to make as much of a fool of yourself as you so desire. You've been afforded that right by countless patriots like those who are fighting and dying in Iraq and Afghanistan. You should show some respect, regardless of how you feel about the war itself. But I don't see you coming to your senses anytime soon...

[mfqr]

I'm pretty sure that I never said that I have the evidence...I was simply asking to be provided the evidence for some of the outrageously paranoid and naive statements.
But frankly...this sound like all the other conspiracy theorists psychobabble. Irresponsible and immature. Or not...whatever.

Meanwhile...I grow my pot, help others, and will vote for the most qualified. Kinds sucks we come from a different philosophy...but I'll never dance to the beat of your drummer.:jointsmile:

To each his own, brother. We're all the same. Sorry, I know you didn't claim to have any evidence... I just wanted to ask some questions, because I was wondering why you're okay with the possibility of the government spying on you. I am certainly not okay with the possibility of them listening on my conversations, and spying on me, even if I am doing nothing wrong. It's just the thought that I cannot talk to a friend in privacy, without Big Brother listening in on my conversations. This isn't conspiracy theory, but rather conspiracy. The evidence is *right there* (the bill). This isn't about stopping terrorists, it's about power.

If you look throughout history, you can see that there are always would-be dictators trying to make power grabs... either by a coup d'etat, or by using the law to subvert the law. And unfortunately, from my point of view, I see this happening here in America. Now, don't get me wrong, I am not saying this is all Bush's plan. The plan is crafted and carried out by modern-day aristocrats. Yes, they still exist... and likely, they will never go away. There is always a struggle between liberty and oppression. Correct history is probably the best way to predict future events without having using some sort of method of telepathy. No, this is not psycho-babble: it's evidence, shown right in this thread, that there is a lack of care for our civil liberties. Is that not something to be worried about? When will you be worried, when (or if) a police state or military state becomes apparent in this country? Or is that necessary to thwart terrorism that has been around for a long, long time?

If so, when will our civil liberties be returned? When this "war," with no end in sight, ends? When we conquer the whole middle-east? Deep thinking and critical analysis really helps--but of course, they don't want you to do that, or you may end up with a conclusion which exposes their plans.

[Rusty Trichome]

This isn't conspiracy theory, but rather conspiracy. The evidence is *right there* (the bill). This isn't about stopping terrorists, it's about power.

Well, I'm guessing you are including Sen. Reid, (and his minions) in this conspiracy theory? This whole post centered around the bill being signed by Sen. Harry Reid, clearing just one of the hurdles that our lawmakers must clear before passing into law. Very big conspiracy, indeed.

I guess y'all need a cause. If not conspiracies, then what would y'all do...? PITA? Human induced global warming?

As far as 'letting' them tap phones...anyone with a scanner can listen in to all you cell phone calls. Don't even have to be Big Brother. And quite frankly...I keep myself out of situations where feds would take notice. I don't stand at the top of the mountain saying...'this government sucks, is corrupt, and all who believe differently than I are patent liars, un-educated and brainwashed.'

Until they face up to the notion that there is a gigantic chunk of information they are taught to deny, they will continue to spout nonsence as gospel. (from educators, the media...)
This is how you've been schooled. From the slant of everyday progress in Iraq, to your indoctrination in schools...you are getting a great lesson in brainwashing. (Brainwashing: also known as thought reform or as re-education, consists of any effort aimed at instilling certain attitudes and beliefs in a person â?? sometimes unwelcome beliefs in conflict with the person's prior beliefs and knowledge)

But hey...as long as you're happy being treated like the sacrificial lamb, going to your own slaughter.

And this question authority bullshit...? Who questions the authority of those calling your shots? Your 'leaders' are manipulating this generation better than any government could ever conceive. I'll kinda feel sorry for them, once y'all see you have been blinded all along.

[yokinazu]

ok i dont know about the conspiracy theorys but the one thing i do know is i feal like i been manupulated and lied to for much to long now. and it dint start in 2000 but long befor that. i cant say what i feal about this bill either because really dont know all the details. but i do know that i dont want the gov't listaning to any of my phone calls. now i know some will say its only overseas calls. well i dont know but i may be in an unique situation here. my sister-in-law lives in germany and is married to a muslim. i may not agree with all his veiws on things but he is really not a bad guy and i do like him. i also talk to thm everyonce in a while. she has 2 daughters from a previos marrage, i love my neices very much, and she has 2 kids with this man. a son and a daughter. my 2 neices are 15 and 17 years old so they are having the troubes that most teenagers have and they need some guidance that they cant get from parents. so they actually do ask and listen to my opinion on things. wether they follow my advice or not well thats a differant matter. but my point is that im not all that thrilled with the fact that now i will have to worry about haveing my conversations listened to when i call them or they call me. especially due to he fact that their step father is a muslim. and am i going to be labeled as a smpathizer because i have muslim in my family?

also i dont get my news from bill maher but i do like to watch him sometimes, its good for a laugh.

and as far as reid bein a dem and doin this well they are all the same and there will be no true chang in things til we get away from the 2 party politics and people actually start votin for a 3rd party. dems and repubs dont care about us they only care about their own agenda

[Mr. Clandestine]

but my point is that im not all that thrilled with the fact that now i will have to worry about haveing my conversations listened to when i call them or they call me. especially due to he fact that their step father is a muslim. and am i going to be labeled as a smpathizer because i have muslim in my family?

This is the kind of paranoia that's constantly being fed by conspiracy theorists, wanting you to believe that the government is out to get you. I have extended family who lives in Italy and throughout Europe, many of whom I talk to fairly frequently. One of my cousins lives in Italy, and is a practicing Buddhist. Now, I know Buddhists are certainly going to be considered less of a threat to many people than Muslims, but under the same premise, they're not fundamentalist Christians and therefore could be grouped with the same radical Muslim factions that our government is looking thwart.

While some of our conversations may well have been listened to for all I know, I've never found any reason to suspect that this was so. When you start your conversation off with, "How's your mother?" or "Did you make it to the Cannabis Cup this year?" -- and NOT, "Hey, I think I've got the schematics down for this suicide vest."...then I've given anyone who may be listening no reason to suspect that I may be plotting something. I've never gotten a follow-up call from DHS after my conversations, and my door has never been kicked in. And this wouldn't happen, because for the thousandth time...I've done nothing wrong.

As for third party representation, that would be a nice idea. I too am tired of the endless bickering between the Democrats and Republicans. While they spend weeks at a time arguing over a bill, they could be doing so many other productive things...like passing bills and other measures that would benefit their country, as opposed to stalling tactics that typically end in a stalemate. I'm Republican by choice, but that's not to say I'll only vote Republican. (I didn't vote for Bush in either of the last two elections.) I'll vote for anyone who will focus on making our country a better place for her citizens...be they Democrat, Republican, or Independent. These are all just labels. We're all Americans, regardless of how the extreme dissenters may feel about it.