*Breaking News* Majority leader Reid clears hurdle for Bush/Cheney spying bill

[Rusty Trichome]

If all you are worried about is a conversation over the phone, what are you talking about they can nail you for...? (hypothetical question, not an accusation)

Unless you talk about the bank heist you pulled off last week, or the upcoming harvest and sale of your 60,000 watt gro-op, I'm confused as to the validity of most citizens concerns.

A couple of my reasons for not being concerned about this:
A) I'm not about to talk of stuff I truly feel might be taped. Common sence would prevent me from being so stupid.
B) I'm perfectly willing to have a couple of minor portions of my civil rights reigned-in for the sake of the rest of my fellow americans safety and security. Especially since I have no reason to fear an invasion into my life as a direct result of this bill. If this hurts the extremists feelings, I'm fine with that.
C) I, as do all voters, also hold the right to reject restriction of any of the other rights guranteed me in the constitution. As sometimes is the case, concessions must be made for the right reasons at the right time in history. It's not about losing a constitutional right. It's about gaining another tool in our fight for the sovereignty and safety of our country. Other times, other circumstances, other rights, yes...I'd fight tooth-and-nail to protect. But you just don't cut off your nose, to spite your face.

The constitution and the bill of rights are 'living documents' just as the framers of the United States had intended. They are not the end point, but the begining point. The bill of rights has been ammended many, many times in the past, and future times can/will warrant further modifications. It is a process that's been going on for many generations. Sen. Reid knows this all too well, aparently.

Fear not, chicken little...it's just a meteor.

[mfqr]

If all you are worried about is a conversation over the phone, what are you talking about they can nail you for...? (hypothetical question, not an accusation)

Unless you talk about the bank heist you pulled off last week, or the upcoming harvest and sale of your 60,000 watt gro-op, I'm confused as to the validity of most citizens concerns.

That is one of my points, actually. No terrorist is going to use a phone with a standard service to talk about their next target... and I'm sure the government knows this.

B) I'm perfectly willing to have a couple of minor portions of my civil rights reigned-in for the sake of the rest of my fellow americans safety and security. Especially since I have no reason to fear an invasion into my life as a direct result of this bill. If this hurts the extremists feelings, I'm fine with that.

Yep, and you will likely keep having to do it. Giving up rights, that is.

[Rusty Trichome]

So under you views, all of the bill of rights' ammendments should be stricken...? Or would it be better just to rid ourselves of the whole Bill of Rights thing once and for all? Don't look now, but your apparent ignorance is showing.
As technology and inter-global communications advance, there will likely be many more ammendments passed. This is the beauty of the Bill of Rights. It gives us the flexibility to protect the rights of America's citizens as the times necessitate. Interesting documents...ya ought to read 'em sometime.

[THClord]

This is retarded! Those who want to encrypt their phone calls (terrorists) can do so without any problem. And the rest of the US should be spyed on? WTF?

And retroactive amnesty???? You've got to be kidding. It's like awarding those who break the law in favor of the Bush administration.

Seriously, someone needs to do the world a favor and shoot Bush in the head. He'll do far too much damage until he leaves office. Actually that won't work either, cuz the Bush followers will make a grand BS scheme of terrorists killing Bush, because he has become a threat to the terrorist way of life, and then they'll pass even more laws against our freedom. If people believed 9/11 despite all the evidence against it, they'd believe this.

[mfqr]

So under you views, all of the bill of rights' ammendments should be stricken...? Or would it be better just to rid ourselves of the whole Bill of Rights thing once and for all? Don't look now, but your apparent ignorance is showing.
As technology and inter-global communications advance, there will likely be many more ammendments passed. This is the beauty of the Bill of Rights. It gives us the flexibility to protect the rights of America's citizens as the times necessitate. Interesting documents...ya ought to read 'em sometime.

I am hoping you are right... that this is no problem for us.

And no, I don't see why you would think that I think the Bill of Rights should be trashed... especially since I am here speaking for the liberties of everyone. Quite a strange question, that is. And I have read the Bill of Rights before (have not in quite awhile, though).

I am willing to accept the possibility of my ignorance here. Are you willing to accept the possibility of your ignorance in this subject too? Just curious. But of course, you live truth, hear truth, and see truth every day.

[Rusty Trichome]

If you are asking if I am intelligent enough to think I have gained my opinion by reading/watching/hearing news from sources favorible to both sides of the aisle? and if I have come to my own conclusions on a variety of issues using available information and common sence, while filtering out the inuendo and gossip from talk show hosts on a slant? or if I have an inherent feeling of gratitude to be born and raised here?

I'm confident to give a strong yes to all.

Do I have gripes about every administration? Sure. Do I feel compelled to nit pick every aspect of an administration I've been taught to despise? Used to, but was much younger then. Pres. Carter was a real bitch back then. :jointsmile:

Could I be wrong? Again...I'm not nearly foolish enough to answer that no. And I'm sure if evidence comes about to show events in a new light, my opinion will obviously be altered to reflect this.

[mfqr]

If you are asking if I am intelligent enough to think I have gained my opinion by reading/watching/hearing news from sources favorible to both sides of the aisle? and if I have come to my own conclusions on a variety of issues using available information and common sence, while filtering out the inuendo and gossip from talk show hosts on a slant? or if I have an inherent feeling of gratitude to be born and raised here?

I'm confident to give a strong yes to all.

Do I have gripes about every administration? Sure. Do I feel compelled to nit pick every aspect of an administration I've been taught to despise? Used to, but was much younger then. Pres. Carter was a real bitch back then. :jointsmile:

Could I be wrong? Again...I'm not nearly foolish enough to answer that no. And I'm sure if evidence comes about to show events in a new light, my opinion will obviously be altered to reflect this.

Hehe, alright. Just wanted to get that out of the water.

Anyway, there's not much else to say anymore -- I think we've argued out the best of this topic. So there's no reason to go on anymore. Also, don't think I'm not taking into consideration what you say. It's one of the reasons I posted this. It is just I am more biased towards us losing liberties... and I think it is an area of the topic that should be brought up.

[yokinazu]

i will have to say that i am not stupid enough to broadcast m doings publicly, hell read any post that i made about using credit cards to buy grow equipment with. but why listen in on american citezens? i can understand those who are not citezens. also i do not think we should give immunity to anyone, especially the gov't. they should be the ones that are furthest from immunity. say they arret and detain you or a family member for terorist activity then its proved to be wrong wouldnt you want some sort of retribution?

by the way i am a liberal who has and will vote for a conservative i they make sense and will do the right thing. but unfortunatly neither the repubs or the dems seem too interested in that now a days.

[Rusty Trichome]

Hehe, alright. Just wanted to get that out of the water.

Anyway, there's not much else to say anymore -- I think we've argued out the best of this topic. So there's no reason to go on anymore. Also, don't think I'm not taking into consideration what you say. It's one of the reasons I posted this. It is just I am more biased towards us losing liberties... and I think it is an area of the topic that should be brought up.

You know...I can truly appreciate and fully respect that.
Bonus rep points for ya. :jointsmile:

[norkali]

B) I'm perfectly willing to have a couple of minor portions of my civil rights reigned-in for the sake of the rest of my fellow americans safety and security.

'Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.'

-Benjamin Franklin, 1775.

Well, I'm guessing you are including Sen. Reid, (and his minions) in this conspiracy theory? This whole post centered around the bill being signed by Sen. Harry Reid, clearing just one of the hurdles that our lawmakers must clear before passing into law. Very big conspiracy, indeed.

Technically, yes, this is a conspiracy. Unwarranted surveillance of American citizens is definitely 'unlawful' under the Constitution. I'm sure this plan was talked about in secret before it was brought to public attention. So yes, it was a conspiracy.

I don't stand at the top of the mountain saying...'this government sucks, is corrupt, and all who believe differently than I are patent liars, un-educated and brainwashed.'

You should sometime. You do know, this isn't China. We have something called the 1st Amendment - the freedom of religion, press, and expression.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it," - Evelyn Beatrice Hall