Major issues with plants. HELP!!

[NovaBlue]

PICS BELOW AND IN MY GALLERY ALSO!

Seeds or clones, source? Seeds FIRST GROW
How old are the plants? 66 days
How big are the plants? 1'6" - 2'
Lighting wattage & distance? Veg'd under (3) 45 watt flouros 24/0; 400watt HPS w/remote ballast
Soil ingredients or hydro system? Miracle Grow Soil 4gal. plus 1/2gal. bone meal
Container size? 5gal.
Watering frequency? How do you judge this? every 5-7 days, moisture meter (1=dry; 4=wet) kinda basic soil meter but okay.
Fertilizers used and how often? Dutch nutes veg for first 2 weeks flowering
How do you ventilate the space? old air mover vent system kinda rigged; maybe like 200cfm's
Other details? Include photos if possible.

Okay these plants are having some issues. After an extremely long vegging period (like 8.5 weeks) I finally drove far to the nearest Hydroponics store and picked up a 400watt HPS with batwing type reflector and a remote ballast. I also picked up good Dutch nutes (used miracle grow nuts in half strength for vegging) NOTE: These plants were switched to a 12/12 schedule at day 60.

I think maybe the switch to HPS lighting kinda out of nowhere might have fried them. I have the light roughing 2 feet above the plants. I have a really strong desk fan blowing directly into the light and the face of the hood to help with cooling. The temps were roughing 93 degrees F during the lights on. Darkness hours the temp fell to like 75 degrees F. The cabinet is a C22 from Home Depot.

The vent system is 2in PVC exhaust system hooked up to an old air mover I had sitting around that is pulling air out of the system prolly around 200cfm's. The air is routed into the attick through an old 8in vent releasing air outside and at the top of the attick. The cabinet leaks like a crazy for induction of air purposes and (2)2in PVC air inlets.

I watered them each with 300ml of a (2liter + 2(1/2 tsp) of Dutch veg nutes. The next day 3 of the 6 plants showed over watering with droppy leaves. The other 3 are fine. I left the house on thursday night to work 2 hours away and returned Monday morning at 11am. I figured they would remain wet for the entire period since I watered too much. When I returned today I had major problems. The pics in my gallery will show you...

NovaBlue Reviewed by NovaBlue on 02-14-2005. Major issues with plants. HELP!! PICS BELOW AND IN MY GALLERY ALSO! Seeds or clones, source? Seeds FIRST GROW How old are the plants? 66 days How big are the plants? 1'6" - 2' Lighting wattage & distance? Veg'd under (3) 45 watt flouros 24/0; 400watt HPS w/remote ballast Soil ingredients or hydro system? Miracle Grow Soil 4gal. plus 1/2gal. bone meal Container size? 5gal. Watering frequency? How do you judge this? every 5-7 days, moisture meter (1=dry; 4=wet) kinda basic soil meter but okay. Fertilizers used and how Rating: 5

[NovaBlue]

More pics

[NovaBlue]

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[dylan]

looks to me like extreme overfertilization.

[NovaBlue]

Okay they are definately stretched from floros but i don't have access to anything within a 3 hour drive for any of this stuff for the grow. The next grow will benefit from close CFL seedling/sprouting grow to 400watt MH Agro-max veg period followed by the 400watt HPS bloom. But currently I am just picking up mid grow.

The 6 plants are definately all females so I would at least like to save all of them so i can clone them.

Bone meal is just like sand only it feels a lot drier. It was used to airate the Miracle Grow soil from Wal-mart. The pots are 5 gal. but I filled with 4gal of Miracle Grow pre-fert soil (i know but there were no organic ones available) and then i added 1/2gal. of bone meal and mixed well. Oh and there is 1/2in. of small white pebbles on the bottom for runoff which has worked well the entire way through vegging.

I started with Miracle Grow nutes from the beginning. I since bought the HPS light and Dutch Nutes at this hydroponics store. I mixed following the directions on the bottle which is right in front of me now...here is what it says:

Miracle Grow All Purpose Plant Food (Used Day 1 - 59)
15-30-15
Total Nitrogen: 15%
5.8% Ammoniacal Nitrogen
9.2% Urea Nitrogen
Available Phosphate: 30%
Soluble Potash: 15%
Boron: 0.02%
Copper: 0.07%
Iron: 0.15%
Manganese 0.05%
Molybdenum: 0.0005%
Zinc: 0.06%

This was mixed 1tsp per gallon of water which I did. Used it every 3rd time watering during veg.

DNF(GRO): Dutch Nutrient Formula Gro (Used once so far on day 60 because it was the first day of 12/12)
Part A: 2-0-2
Total Nitrogen: 2%
Soluble Potash: 2%
Calcium: 2%
Part B: 0-1-3
Available Phosphate: 1%
Soluble Potash: 3%
Magnesium: 0.50%
Molybdenum: 0.0011%

It says directly on the back of the bottle that for plants already established in soil to add 1/2tsp of PartA and PartB into 1 quart of water. I had put 1tsp of PartA and PartB into roughly 3/4gal. of water. Now I did water each plant with 300ml of this mix on day 60 when the meter said dry. I realize this was too much. I guess I was figuring a grow spurt or something since they were going under 400watt HPS light and 12/12 light cycle. Anywho...that's the fert stuff.

As for temp I was worried but I had a really good desk fan shooting air at the bulb. Temps were like 93 degrees F during light hours. I kept the door to the cabinet open all day today so keep temp down to 84 degrees F. I foilage sprayed them today with spring water and they absorbed it within a few minutes. At night during dark hours the cabinet is closed with the fan still on and temps are about 75 degrees F.

Ventilation might be my problem with the heat. I mean I have two 2in. inlets and the doors glow when the light is on so there is plently of air coming through the cracks i thought. And the ambient temp of my house is like 74 degrees F sometimes colder.
I was thinking of cutting a 8in. diameter whole in the back bottom of the cabinet and setting the desk fan right next to it to draw air in from the outside. Cause right now I think the fan is just throwing around the hot air that is already in the cabinet.

I won't be feeding them any nutes till I see some sort of major recovery. I only feed them spring water from the store which is like neutral pH I would assume. My tap water sucks.

[dylan]

try to flush the soil as good as possable. with the amount of ferts you are using it is definatly overfert. let me get this straight...the soil has ferts. then you put bone meal, which i'm assuming has phospherous in it, and followed up with MG 15-30-15 and another fert with 2-0-2...is that right?

well, i usually (outdoors) use top soil from home depo mixed with sand, vermiculite, perlite, and maybe some coco fiber. so far no nutrents in the soil. then, i get some shultz 20-20-20 and some advanced nutes b-52 2-1-4 plus vitiamins; thats it until it gets close to flowering. then i swich to a good bloom fert maybe 10-20-20 or even 15-60-15 if the plants can take it, and keep the b-52 also.

if you can transplant them into some less toxic soil you may be able to save them.
good luck, and keep us posted!

[Garden Knowm]

looks like over fert... : (
I am thinking you better put them back in veg mode...
Let them heal.. flush... flush... distilled water from the market..
Clone...
then FLOWER..

could take a month ...

they look save - able : )

good luck

[NovaBlue]

Okay I've managed to keep the light hour temps to roughly 80 degrees F maybe tops 84 degrees F. I have used spring water to foilage spray each plant at lights on the past two days.

5 of the 6 plants have shown major recovery signs. Two are growing very well and 3 have become "perky" again. the one that was hardest hit I pruned significantly today. I'll have to keep an eye on it but it looks as though there is plenty of new healthy growth at the nodes.

I also picked up a pH testing kit. I tested the spring water and it read in at 6.0 pH. I tested the nute mixed water from the solution of spring water and Dutch nutes and it read between 4.0-5.0 pH (prolly lower 4s) What can i add to the spring water to raise the pH to roughly 6.5-7.0 as i have read is where MJ is happy? Epson salts or something?

Listed (since I now checked outr tap water too):
Bottle Spring water: pH 6.0
Nute+spring water: pH 4.0-4.5
Tap Water: pH 7.5-8.0

Anyway these plants aren't gonna see any nutes for a week or more to try and break them out of the overnute problem.

I will take some pictures at the end of the week but one plant did react okay to the over nute situation and is going crazy. The preflowers are like an inch long and there are literally like 100 or more of them overall on the plant. So I am happy that if other plants don't work out I can still clone from a good plant for the next grow.

I want to really thank everyone for their help on this. I mean I have done extreme amounts of reading over the past few months and still I had a major problem. Live and learn I guess, but I am gonna make a complete list later this week when I post more pics of the materials and nutes I have to work with for my second grow. I bought a few different brands of nutes when I was at the hydroponics store. Now don't interpret that as having availability to this store as it is the closest and is 3 HOURS away. It sucks. But like I said I have another brand called B.C. Boost and Thrive Alive, and Awesome Blossoms.

I also wanna clone using rockwool cubes which I bought like 50 of them at the hydrostore. I could start clones in this and still move them to a soil medium once they have show some significant roots right? Well not the main topic here and I will do some searching to look into it more and post some ideas here.

[MisterSource]

i am no pro, but it looks like maybe when you were vegging, they were too far from the light. I try to keep my fluoros within 4 inches from the tops.

also, i think you had temps that were way too high as well. i am currently building a simular cab. i will be using a 400w hps as well, but with a cool tube. I freak out when my temps hit 80! hehe. I try my best to keep it right at 70-75.

[MisterSource]

here's how close i keep my lights in my little veg cab.