Right I understand (I think ) why YOU cloned....and why I am practicing on less than perfect moms but quite seriously most of my clones don't even live a week (took some new ones today.....already wilting) so they wouldn't make it anyway whether taken during veg or not. Unless I can pinpoint the problem and get past them it's getting pretty pointless doing "the same thing over and over and expecting a different result." Unless someone can tell me WHY I'm losing these clones it certainly seems.....well....less than an intelligent thing to be doing to keep snipping off branches and killing them off in a cloner.. I've tried more wet, less wet, etc etc etc and haven't had one make it yet. I really don't have anything else to try and I'm all out of thoughts, ideas, and options. Quite frankly once they START to wilt I pretty much can tell that's the end of it because its very consistent. I can't get them to live but i can get them to croak on a regular, 100% basis. That's all I seem capable of doing....every single time.