LEAF CLAW MYSTERY AT BUD SITE

[lethalrx]

yeah hound,
i am reading closer now.

who knew these girls were so sensitive,
the most affected plants have taller long weaker stems
as the guide says too much nitrogen plants will..

seems that if i have an NH4+ toxicity problem,
which dosent sound nice.
than my PH imbalance has also been having a play

ammonium based nutrients, which i am using.....
"leaf margins that will roll downward. Also the big fan leaves will have â??the clawâ?� look. The tips will point down but the leaves will stay up as if when you bend your fingers downwards"

i dont think it is the garage floor/ its not all that cold
i raised the most problematic ones on blocks
i dont think the plants are too root bound either
i think the cold is hurting, but this is something else

i think after reading that closer,
I guess the plants are just over nitrogen-ed
beginner mistake... from over feeding
not to much water really, too much N,

i cant do anything about what got them there
i guess the new question i what next?

a double volume 100% water flush
so am i assume that the plants can handle more water
they have to much build of nitrogen from the nutrients,
and in-fact may have underdeveloped roots...
so clear em out ?

if i just watered with nutrients yesterday,
should i still give a full flush tommorow
considering i thought it was a nutrient deficiency
and have been feeding accordingly

i think i am going to try to flush out the worst ones.
but what about the near future
critical bloom stages are comming up
if i cant feed nutrients i will be f-d
i guess i just need to hold back on the nutes with N

what else?

[stinkyattic]

I think the N OD is a secondary problem. Hold off N in flower ANYWAY.

Don't lie the whole pot on its side, come on, think about the logic in that- bend the plant gently away from the lights.

IMHO= in my humble opinion and I don't know where you got 'combustion' from, you aren't to that step yet.

Nice phrasing by the way; it's like an ambient poem about sick plants...

When a plant is root-bound, all the flushing and pH adjustment in the world is, at best, a temporary fix.

COLD WET SOIL KILLS PLANTS. When you have ANY nutrient or pH imbalance, and you will continue to have them until you re-pot, cold soil will make it many-fold worse.

You HAVE to repot and you HAVE to lift off the cold ground.

You may or may not choose to take this advice; it sounds like you're not going to, so I can't help any more here. I'm not going to sulk and pout over having wasted my time, but I know how to grow plants. Ignore this advice at your own plants' peril.

[lethalrx]

just trying to put a finger on the specifics of the problem and then cure.

i guess problem for sure is N, too much N

I raised them up, the worst ones...

i hope to re-pot the worst today as well

just wondering if a flush would be in order.

i was concerned if i flush i might get what you said

too much cold wet soil again.

so you say just re-pot and no flush,

its just everyone says something different and

everyone in this business is so sure they know best

and then its, well just take a hike then...

well, like i said. i am going to run some test groups

we will see what happens with a flush and no repot

and I will repot a couple as well

its only a few plants that are really bad, others just show signs

i don't want to repot everything,

so for the ones that just show signs,
but are not really too bad
should i flush em'

so the worst are off the concrete and will be repotted
the one with mild curl, will be lifted up and flushed

would you agree stinky ?

[stinkyattic]

Lift ALL plants.
Repot ALL plants. Use a good quality soil in volumes appropriate to your plant size.
Test soil runoff to check that pH is correct for ALL plants.
The problem is NOT primarily N overdose. There is a thread from today which shows a very clear picture of a CLASSIC N overdose brought on by overapplication of superthrive (Urea), if you would like to see it.
You have cold wet acidic soil. When you flush, you need to adjust for this. The runoff pH must fall in the range 6.5-6.8. If it is not already there, and I predict it's going to come out just below 6, you need to adjust it.
If you don't get them up off the cold floor and deal with the acidic conditions they are all going to look like shit soon enough, not just the ones that are already showing symptoms.
PLEASE read the new thread in basic growing about old soil and sativas:
http://boards.cannabis.com/basic-gro...a-growers.html
I've answered this same question already several times this week now that it's winter in the northern hemisphere and you aren't the only one having cold problems.

Yeah... I guess I'm just 'so sure I know best'. You ask a question. I give DETAILED advice. You want to argue. I say, I don't feel like wasting any more time on this question then, on to the next one. I'm going to take a hike now. Tomorrow is trash day and I have garbage to sort.

[Weedhound]

I'm afraid I have to agree with Stinky.....what you've basically done is asked for her time, energy and knowledge....which she gives VERY freely to everyone and always has. But to ask for assistance....then blow it off for reasons that don't really make much sense....(my friend says.....).if your friend is so wonderful and knowledgable why are you having the problem in the first place? Why hasn't your friend solved it for you?

I used to work for a physician MANY years ago. He made a statement about this kind of thing that I have never forgotten. It was something along the line that people would actually PAY MONEY to come see him.....not to mention the time and energy spent at the doctor's offic or doing tests or whatever...and then proceed to completely blow off his advice.......or.....even worse.....only pick out what parts of it THEY wanted to hear and do instead following instructions that they themselves sought out......and THEN blame the doctor for their failures.

People really ARE amazing.

[lethalrx]

well.

being a cold beginner, and having less than 50% of control with what exactly gets done with the entire scene
in many ways my hands are tied

i come to the forum and post for your advice
which i have taken with respect
about what i wrote about take a hike
i was not pointing the statement at anyone
in particular, and not at you
it was my frustration in general
i don't argue with your advice

i propose it to my peers
i get told to take a hike with your ideas
then you get upset because
others are not 100% receptive.
I wish when i got your advice
the angel on my right and the devil on my left both agreed
but they didnt
i was upset that people in my sphere are not so accepting
that your advice was taken and swiped of the table
i suggest lift the pots, i hear, why, waste of time
i suggest repot... i hear "
why, silly waste, i grew plants twice that size in smaller pots"

i just sat aloud what stinky says, no one here likes it
they swipe it
then i tell stinky no one likes it and i look like an idiot
i am not arguing with you

please dont be so offended by me
my position in all this is a complete peon.
a gopher...

i type on the post for my own info
i type on the post, they laugh at me
and belittle you
please dont you belittle me too

jeez. how far off topic can i get

maybe the past 6 people at three grow shops i went to today
who all told me it was a waste of time to repot
are also ignorant fools like humble little me

but i bought some 7 gallon buckets anyway
and some happy frog
and i have pearlite,
and foam insulation to lift more pots

as for the tension on the post
and about not listening to advice asked for.
and about my arguing

i think these are all confusions and misconceptions
i do not need to reveal the details of my personal situation
i can go find another sick plant forum
but i don't

i respect you and your time and advice
sorry if i forgot to say THANKYOU

so as for the doctor thing. i guess i am doing what i can
some people think the curl is natural...

more than anything i will store this
in the files for future reference
even if this run get stuffed in a pack of zig zags
next time i will know before hand ...
so all your posing was not in vain

thanks again for your time
god bless...

[lethalrx]

ph run off is 6.7

[cmasfca]

Well composed and thought out post, thanks lethalrx!

I have been following this thread and I have to say, in the beginning I thought "Just listen to Stinky! She knows what's up!" and "What an idiot, just do it!"

Now I know there are others involved in this project. To them you must look like a new grower without experience suggesting things they haven't yet thought of themselves; but they have grown before so what you're saying cannot be right!

Am I right?

I would offer to do the repotting and lifting of the buckets myself if my friends were against doing it. Unless of course they were against me doing anything, then I would wonder why I was involved at all.

[Weedhound]

Lol....cm....I think of you as a perfect example of someone who went out and did what they told......and now has nice growing plants for it. I never once heard you say that you wouldn't do something or fuss or tell me a hundred reasons why you cant. You did it...from completely changing your nutes to dragging 15 gallons of RO water up your stairs. I'm honestly not trying to say that if you do a robot thing and just follow orders everything will be peachy......but I am saying that if you actively seek out someone's advice.....to dis it without even trying it is quite rude.....especially since lifting a pot off the cold ground is HARDLY asking someone to drag 15 gals of water upstairs.

[cmasfca]

I don't want to pat myself on the back too much, but do remember that the day after I dragged the 15 gal of water up three flights of stairs it all leaked into my neighbors closet!!

So I actually dragged 30 gal of water up to my room in 24 hours

I'm such a dumbass lol