Closet Doms in Water.... An Ad Hoc Log of Black Dominas in DWC Hydro

[Opie Yutts]

When do you switch to flowering?

There is no one set time, as many varieties grow differently. On most of my stuff I put my plants into the flowering section when they will fill in most of the screen, like 70-80% of it. Then I give them about 2 weeks to fill in the screen, as I'm positioning them and occasionally tying them into place. Then I mostly leave them alone except for positioning or removing leaves. This is true scrog. Growing in the same res for the whole grow is a mock scrog, or AGWAS; a grow with a screen.

[Opie Yutts]

Just let me know what you are after and I will post it up for all to see... :smokin:

Social Security
Date of birth
Full name
Email address(s)
Bank account(s)
Safety deposit box number(s)
Credit card number(s)
Credit card expiration date(s)
3 or 4 digit code on the back of the credit card(s)
Telephone number (work and home)
Home address
Address listed with credit card(s)
Mothers maiden name
City where born
Name of favorite pet
Favorite food
All screen names and passwords, and what they're for

That should about do it. Go ahead and add anything you think might be helpful.

[Opie Yutts]

Well CM, looks like the D screen in D-SCROG is gonna stand for "dumped", as in I ditched the upper screen last night as I was tired of fighting it to maintain the garden.

I had a feeling...

Sorry for that wasted effort, but kudos to you for having the balls to try something different. Experimenting is an excellent way to learn.

[Weedhound]

LOL.....I said something along the same line to cm about cutting the screen and got only....silence..... so I started to wonder whether my assumption might be.....well....WRONG!!

And....it was.....

[Weedhound]

MVP....the breakdown of your nutes etc....how much CalMag, bloom nutes, etc....you know.... MR CLIPBOARD!!

Correct me if I am wrong....but I don't see a single def or sign of lockout.....I want to knw your ratios. :thumbsup:

[MVP]

I had a feeling...

Sorry for that wasted effort, but kudos to you for having the balls to try something different. Experimenting is an excellent way to learn.

Yeah, your gut was on target. Since it took me around an hour or less, I feel it was worth it to see if it was a good idea. I'm sure glad I built it and found out I didn't need it, rather than not building it and finding out the hard way that it was necessary for the grow.

[MVP]

No problem Hound, I'll grab Mr C when the girls wake up around 7pm and post up the details tonight.

[Opie Yutts]

Because as far as I'm concerned you guys are pretty much doing "supercropping" and if not that....then close to it.

I don't know much about supercropping, but I guess what I thought I knew is wrong. Isn't that when you intentionally damage your plants? I thought you gently crush stems with hopes that they will build back up better, faster, stronger. I have not thoroughly studied this, but so far it seems like a bunch of nonsense.

The last thing I want to do is damage my plants. I hardly ever remove a leaf, and the second to last resort (which is rare as well) is to damage the stem of the leaf, just enough to permanently get it growing in a more desirable direction. Are you trying to tell me that you do not move a fan leaf if it is shading the light from a nug of value? What if you physically did not have any place to put that leaf due to extremely dense jungle conditions? Would you remove it or let it shade Cindy07, your 6th favorite bud of the grow?

I personally think... that every single time you do something to the plants, retie them, push things around, pick off a few fan leaves, change a growth direction, pinch off a branch, snip off a "quick nug" for trying .....ANYTHING.... you are making the plant stop what it is doing....... growing......and concentrate on fixing whatever problem has just come up and it doesn't really go back to full on growing until said problem is taken care.

I agree 100%. That's why I've always said that I absolutely hate removing anything, and it is absolutely a last choice. It's also rare for me. This last grow of mine it became a little less rare due to me being a first timer at LST, and doing a whole bunch of things wrong, from starting with fucked up clones to making way too many bud sites.

I was actually going to mention it on your thread opie.....you have a million budsites but they are all small. I think (just guessing) you are going to have an extended bloom time but if you keep training from here on out to a MINIMUM you will eventually get some good yield to your buds. If you keep "fixing them" again and again.....well I do think it will affect yield as well eventually but......DISCLAIMER THREE.....it's just my opinion.

Where do you keep getting the impression I like fixing them again and again? I've said several times (somewhere) that I have been done fixing for quite awhile now. The only thing I'm doing to them until harvest is tucking an occasional leaf so it doesn't shade a bud. The leaf is still there, it's just in a different position. I feared that I was writing "I fucked up this grow on several levels and I am doing things different next time", too many times, but maybe I need to say it more.

Here's how the minimal stress life of a MJ plant in my system is supposed to exist through harvest:

or

How do you stress me, let me count the ways:

Other than getting 99.7% of her body hacked off and taken away from her, she starts out fairly stress free. The first possible stress is if any mold starts appearing in the aero cloner. That doesn't really happen much, and if it does it's usually where any foliage touches a part of the cloner that stays wet. This is usually toward the end of her stay in the cloner and is semi-rare. An antifungal could help, but usually I don't need one. This happens whether you scrog or not.

The next stress is when she starts getting hardened. I leave the dome lid up 1/4" or so, just until she starts to look unhappy. I keep doing off and on, each time making the opening larger. Eventually she will be fine without a dome and it's time to plant. You can also harden after planting, but that's more difficult IMHO, and also more dangerous. You just put a baggie, or any clear plastic... thing, over her and do the same as with the lid. This happens whether you scrog or not.

The next stress is when I top or LST, but normally for me it's topping. This happens for many people whether they scrog or not.

The next stress is when I don't check in on them and they have grown into the light, and got couple crispy leaves. This happens for many people whether they scrog or not.

The next stress is when I take them out of the veg section and put them into the flower section. This happens for many people whether they scrog or not, but some effects of this stress can be softened a little, through various methods. I don't worry about it much, but I usually taper off the veg nutes instead of switching all at once.

The next stress shares stress time with the previous one. This is one of the few stresses that is more likely during scrogging, but it happens when the plant is in the veg state, even though it's in the bud chamber. I have not noticed this stressing the plants that I've grown, much if any, but I'm sure it is a possible stress. When I lower the screen onto the plants things can get a little tricky. It would probably be best if I had two people for this but normally I don't. You just have to go ahead and let the plants bend out of the way of the screen. Rarely, maybe every other time, I will snap one in two. Believe it or not this can easily be fixed with a simple piece of masking tape. Just tape em back together as close to their original positions as possible. More often, maybe once each time I'll bend one sharply, which of course is not a problem except for yes, it is a stress. Again, this happens in veg and it's kinda rare. Also, this happens for many people whether they scrog or not.

The main stress that happens in a scrog grow is when you remove the branches and any shoots or potential popcorn buds below the canopy. This certainly must be stressful, but I have never really seen it bother my plants. They just kinda say, "Hey stop it. That tickles", then get on with the usual burst of flowering energy. This happens for some people whether they scrog or not.

As far as I can see, and correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm sure someone will, this next stress is the only one that's inherent to the scrog method. I speak of the little stresses here and there that happen usually in the first two weeks of flowering only. If you do things right, nothing will be cut off. You just position stalks and stems where you want them to be. No bending, no cutting, and hopefully no damage. Just positioning. Much the same as if a branch grew up against the side of a building and hit a window sill or something. It just kinda gets pushed in a direction it wasn't planning on going and says, "Immovable object. Go around". If you stay on it and once a day or so just make sure theyâ??re staying under the screen, itâ??s not much of a stress, but I'm sure it could be considered one. And again this shouldnâ??t be done after 2 weeks of flowering. You want to basically leave them alone after that, except for occasionally moving a leaf thatâ??s shading a good bud. In my opinion you should be doing that no matter what.

Of course there is other stress, such as changes in PPM or diet, but you know, I aint going to list them all. Feel free to add to the list if you so desire.

Nope, sorry, I'm just not buying it. Scrogging is nearly as stress free as any other method in which you top a couple times. But hey, that's just me, experimenting and deciding and deciding what works for me. Your mileage may vary.

MVP, Sorry for the take over.

[Weedhound]

You know.....I just typed up a long reply that got swallowed as many things do around here these days so I give up with explanations...

Opie....I believe that the more you "train" or prune or whatever folks do to the plants the more you extend bloom time. Screw with them too much or too often and you'll mess up the yield as well. I'll stand by that without a doubt.

I like MVP's grow because his plants seem to be going and growing great guns with no sign of losing any yield or slowing down and they all look happy and healthy as hell And I'd like to know how he does it.

[Weedhound]

Also sorry if I sound super crabby but I'm really mad at this board today....so please take my posts with a grain of salt. It's swallowed at least three HUGE posts of mine so I get to the point where I just grunt everything out in three word sentences.

I'm not saying anything against you Opie....your stuff looks great. All I'm saying is that your stuff looks like about one week younger than it is.....you were mentioning the buds were smaller than you expected. I think that's from the training and I think if you add a week or two to your bloom time you'll get the yield you are looking for.

You DID mention you had stopped training them awhile back so I personally think that your plants will pick up from there and start where they left off. I'm guessing that if you trained them for two weeks you probably can add that time whatever reg bloom time you are looking at. That's what I'm trying to find out so that's why I'm asking everybody about it.

I'm also not saying don't train or stress or anything which would be impossible actually.....we all have things we have to do when growing. I just feel......VERY STRONGLY......that the more adjusting you do the more time it adds and I know that I...ME have overcropped my plants and not only did they take much longer to finish but it cut my yield about in half.