thanks for the help guys and gals. they are starting to look lots better. the deformed one is starting to barely sprout inner leaves and that deformed one is still kinda closed but now there are two spear leaves coming out the sides. i didnt flush em, should I since they looking like they are doing ok or should i leave it alone? i will post updates in a little. oh and thanks for the extra info stinkyattic! lots of help!! ive read lots of old threads with your extra input and has always helped clear up things and helped me understand whats really going on instead of an instant fix in the dark!!