Who here likes Ron Paul?

[xlz916]

I'm a newb here, and mostly a lurker, but I am also a social scientist.

Ron Paul should not be taken seriously by anyone. Sorry. He knows nothing about economics, and his tax plans and ideas on the Federal Reserve are dangerously naive. There is not enough gold in the world for the US to adopt a gold standard! There is simply not enough gold wealth to cover the US's material wealth. His ideas regarding our economy are simply stupid. Very VERY stupid.

I do have some respect for his ideas regarding foreign policy. It's moot anyway. He has no shot at winning the Republican nomination, much less a general election.

EDIT to add:

I posted this on another forum -- thought I would acopy and paste it here:

Respectfully, I'm not sure why you guys take RP seriously. Bring back the gold standard? That shows me he knows nothing about economics. (There is not enough gold in the world to back up all the US's wealth!)

Abolish the IRS? Replace it with what -- a flat tax? This will disproportionately affect poor people. Our current tax system is not perfect, but there is a reason every civilized western country uses a progressive tax system. Why? Because people with more disposable income will not have their needs taxed, whereas those who have little to no disposable income will have much less financial "breathing room."

A national sales tax would be even worse!

The reason RP is not taken seriously: a) Because he represents a true threat to the establishment and will bring power "back" to the people, or b) because his ideas are silly and likely dangerous. Occam's razor.

I don't want to denigrate anyone in this thread. Yeah, I'm a newb, but I actually know something about this (it's kind of my career). A lot of intelligent people are supporting RP, but just look at how untenable his positions are!

I will say is is close to right on regarding Iraq and the whole imperialism thing. His foreign policy outlook is good. But domestically his ideas are rather silly and dangerous.

[xlz916]

Do you know than Osama Bin Laden said he is glad the US is in Iraq cause this way he can have both the Shiites and Sunnis unite and fight against America, and the longer the US is in Iraq the easier it is for him to do this

This is totally incorrect. Sorry.

Bin Laden hates the Shia quite possibly more than the US. Many extremist (Wahhabi) Sunnis believe that the US, Israel, and Iran (yes, Iran) are allies fighting against "true" (Sunni Wahhibism).

I will happily take back my statements should you provide a link. I think I probably agree with your overall position regarding foreign policy, but it's important to have your facts straight.

[xlz916]

You can only vote for a canidate in a primary if you are a registered voter for that party, if you are an independant you can not vote in a primary.

This is wrong.

Many states (eg New Hamphire, Missouri) are open primary states.

Then for the democrates you have the same thing and the far left liberals have the most activist voting block so you end up with a cannidate on the far left ( ie. Kerry and Gore )

So in the end we have cannidates that are on the extream end of either party. So in turn nothing in our goverment gets done!!!! because there is no middle ground!

Wow you really don't know what you are talking about at all do you?

[melodious fellow]

I posted here the other day and my post is GONE! :wtf:

[iniganja]

Ron Paul will not legalize marijuana or any other drug. Im not sure if anyone has cleared this up but I have seen numerous comments (and the above signature) on how he will do so. He will simply remove the federal governments authority on the matter and leave it to the states--the constitutional way. If your state wants marijuana to be legal then it will be.

Respectfully, I'm not sure why you guys take RP seriously. Bring back the gold standard? That shows me he knows nothing about economics. (There is not enough gold in the world to back up all the US's wealth!)
Well, he never actually said he would bring it back. But, the gold standard makes a lot more since than money being back by thin air.

Abolish the IRS? Replace it with what -- a flat tax? This will disproportionately affect poor people. Our current tax system is not perfect, but there is a reason every civilized western country uses a progressive tax system. Why? Because people with more disposable income will not have their needs taxed, whereas those who have little to no disposable income will have much less financial "breathing room."
Yes, abolish the IRS. The only reason it is there is to pay the debt to the Fed. And, who is to say income is disposable? Bill Gates and Donald Trump have disposable income? Their money--a product of their mind--is disposable? Their mind and contributions to mankind are disposable? Flat tax? Over my dead body.


The reason RP is not taken seriously: a) Because he represents a true threat to the establishment and will bring power "back" to the people, or b) because his ideas are silly and likely dangerous. Occam's razor.
What is the establishment? And power to the people is stated in the constitution and correlates directly with logic...so help me out with your A. As for B: His ideas give power to the people and take away from a house of fascists. You're damn right WE are dangerous.

I don't want to denigrate anyone in this thread. Yeah, I'm a newb, but I actually know something about this (it's kind of my career). A lot of intelligent people are supporting RP, but just look at how untenable his positions are!
Intelligent people know logic; so they side with logical positions. Untenable? I think we can take care of ourselves just fine

[angry nomad]

I just want to let everyone know that Fox News has announced that Ron Paul will be excluded from the Fox News debate in New Hampshire on January sixth.

[xlz916]

...the gold standard makes a lot more since than money being back by thin air.

No, it doesn't. Honestly.

The value of money is decided by a process of floating: which basically allows the value of currency to fluctuate against other currency.

There is no such thing as real value. The only reason gold has value is that we give it value. As I explain to my classes: God does not cram wealth inside of gold. If we want to say shiny pieces of golden metal have value, then it has value. The same exact principle applies to little green pieces of paper.

Yes, economics is weird.

[angry nomad]

No, it doesn't. Honestly.

The value of money is decided by a process of floating: which basically allows the value of currency to fluctuate against other currency.

There is no such thing as real value. The only reason gold has value is that we give it value. As I explain to my classes: God does not cram wealth inside of gold. If we want to say shiny pieces of golden metal have value, then it has value. The same exact principle applies to little green pieces of paper.

Yes, economics is weird.

Gold and silver cannot be printed.

[xlz916]

Gold and silver cannot be printed.

No, but they are subject to the same forces of supply and demand.

New sources of gold and silver can, and have been found. When this happens their value goes down.

Smart governments do not print more money when they are in financial trouble. Because it is insane.

We do alter the value of our money through a system of altering interest rates that banks can change each other int he short term. This does give us some flexibility in increasing or decreasing the value of our own currency. (And yes, having a weak currency is a good idea sometimes!)

EDIT: The main advantage of having a system where a government can print money at will is that they can expand their economy when needed. Gold, as you mentioned, can't be printed. The US economy has outgrown the gold standard. There simply is not enough gold to cover all its wealth.

[Cyclonite]

The "gold standard" doesn't mean gold necessarily, you seem pretty stuck on that. RP has stated this. " We will know that day is approaching when oil-producing countries demand gold, or its equivalent, for their oil rather than dollars or Euros."

The current system sucks and needs to be revamped big time...I remember when I was in Germany and the euro was first introduced, how great was that $1-1.5 euro or so. Now look at it, pretty much reversed....we get loans from foreign countries for ridiculous amounts.

Our wealth needs to be backed by something real otherwise the way its going the all mighty dollar is in trouble. We need to pull in to the US and pay off China and get the dollar back where it should be.