Who here likes Ron Paul?

[xlz916]

Dude, I am not trying to debate, but inform.

The idea that "money" needs to be "backed" by something "real" is wrong because 1) money is a commodity (like anything else of value), 2) wealth is a social construction, and the only things that have value are those thing we GIVE value, so 3) there is not such thing as REAL wealth.

Go back and read my posts above. I have tried to explain this -- if I am not clear I apologize.

Again, this is not really debatable. I mean, if you want to argue that 2+2 equals 5, knock yourself out.

EDIT:

We need to pull in to the US and pay off China and get the dollar back where it should be.

I agree 100%.

The problem is that Bush's policies have really left us with no real answers. Doing both of these things at the same time is very difficult, and will lead to recession (which is likely inevitable anyway).

[Nailhead]

I'm a newb here, and mostly a lurker, but I am also a social scientist.

Having 5000+ friends on myspace does not make you a social scientist

Ron Paul should not be taken seriously by anyone. Sorry. He knows nothing about economics

You obviously know NOTHING about Ron Paul

He has no shot at winning the Republican nomination, much less a general election.

You also know nothing about how the primaries work, but I'm sure you watch a lot of Fox News

Abolish the IRS? Replace it with what -- a flat tax?

Ron Paul does not support replacing the IRS with anything other than less spending, and if you knew what you were talking about you wouldn't have gone on about a flat tax as if it is something he supports

I don't want to denigrate anyone in this thread. Yeah, I'm a newb, but I actually know something about this (it's kind of my career).

I hope your boss doesn't read what you post on the internet :P

[xlz916]

Nailhead:

Nice ad hominem attack there.

I have like 30 something Myspace friends. However, I do have a Ph.D. I don't know if that addresses any of your concerns or not.

Fox News is chock-full of right wing propaganda, on top of being really poor journalism. I mean bottom of the barrel, make-up-your-own-facts journalism.

If I say something inaccurate then please correct me. Provide a link or something. I will correct myself. (Example -- "You also know nothing about how the primaries work" -- ???)

I'm sorry if we don't agree on Ron Paul. But that does not make me an idiot.

[NorCal Grown]

EDIT: I posted while still editing/typing. Other post can be deleted, sorry!!

Are you possibly a professor?? But I'm pretty sure your a Socialist.

Originally Posted by xlz916:
"Abolish the IRS? Replace it with what -- a flat tax? This will disproportionately affect poor people. Our current tax system is not perfect, but there is a reason every civilized western country uses a progressive tax system. Why? Because people with more disposable income will not have their needs taxed, whereas those who have little to no disposable income will have much less financial "breathing room.""

"disproportionately affect poor people"?? how with it disproportionately do anything?? It's flat, and if your under a certain income, you don't pay at all. Learn about the flat tax. The current system puts the burden of all these social handout programs on the backs of the innovative and ambitious.

"there is a reason every civilized western country uses a progressive tax system" and most are in VERY bad shape, with stagnant economies.

I have never had or will ever have "disposable income". Could I have some of your "disposable income"?? It does not exist, "disposable income" was made up by people like you. All MY money is mine and I have a plan for it. You did not work for it, I did. You will not decide for ME where it is best spent.

[cosmas]

I've donated to Ron Paul's campaign and truly hope he wins. I'm not as socialist in my viewpoints as Kucinich but I think he has integrity. I dream of a Paul victory but if he's out, i would rather have Kucinich than any of the other corporate shills running in both parties - despite the fact that he's a near polar opposite philosophically to Paul.

[xlz916]

NorCal: thanks for a reasonable, non-hostile, intellectually honest, and non-trollish response. imp:

EDIT: I posted while still editing/typing. Other post can be deleted, sorry!!

Are you possibly a professor?? But I'm pretty sure your a Socialist.

Yes. And have have socialist leanings, though I (like most leftists) concede that capitalism as an economic system works better at creating wealth.

The issue with capitalism is that it also creates wealth inequality, which I personally have a problem with. I believe in wealth redistribution in the form of taxation + redistributive government programs (MUCH more than the bottom of the barrel social redistribution we have in America).

I have never had or will ever have "disposable income". Could I have some of your "disposable income"?? It does not exist, "disposable income" was made up by people like you. All MY money is mine and I have a plan for it. You did not work for it, I did. You will not decide for ME where it is best spent.

What is disposable income? A fair question! This is economics academic jargon for income that comes after meeting one's necessities. Food, rent, bills, etc, is non-disposable. Money that goes toward weed, pussy, plasma screen TVs, and that WoW subscription is disposable income.

You can claim you don't have it if you want, and that is cool. I do understand your position. I even respect it. I just don't agree with it. My opinion: if you make a certain amount of money, you should pay more taxes.

This is likely an issue we will have to agree to disagree on.

[angry nomad]

No, but they are subject to the same forces of supply and demand.

New sources of gold and silver can, and have been found. When this happens their value goes down.

Smart governments do not print more money when they are in financial trouble. Because it is insane.

We do alter the value of our money through a system of altering interest rates that banks can change each other int he short term. This does give us some flexibility in increasing or decreasing the value of our own currency. (And yes, having a weak currency is a good idea sometimes!)

EDIT: The main advantage of having a system where a government can print money at will is that they can expand their economy when needed. Gold, as you mentioned, can't be printed. The US economy has outgrown the gold standard. There simply is not enough gold to cover all its wealth.

The problem is the Fed just makes money whenever they want. Only alchemists can make gold.

[xlz916]

Also:

"there is a reason every civilized western country uses a progressive tax system" and most are in VERY bad shape, with stagnant economies.

Is simply factually inaccurate.

Since 1998 Sweden's rate of growth has been better than the OECD average (basically, other advanced capitalist democracies) EVERY year except one. Sweden, as I'm sure you know, has many more social programs than most other capitalist countries.

Here is where we can agree (I hope): capitalism works. Different systems of capitalism all work relatively well. Which flavor of capitalism you prefer largely depends on your personal values.

Arguing which works better is somewhat pointless imo.

[xlz916]

The problem is the Fed just makes money whenever they want.

You are totally correct.

However, this might not be a bad thing. If you have a government that is run by people that know what the fuck they are doing, it can actually be a good thing.

Given the recent incompetence and stupidity of the Bitch administration I completely understand your lack of trust in government doing this well. Luckily, we have ceded power to a group that can effectively act independently of politicians. (Whether or not this is actually constitutional is another matter entirely.)

Here is a hierarchy most economists would agree on:

Currency supply completely controlled by a bureaucracy of expert economists >>> an inflexible currency system (eg, the gold standard) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Currency supply completely controlled by a bunch of idiots

Only alchemists can make gold.

Word! I tell my classes the same thing! :rastasmoke:

[Nailhead]

Nailhead:

Nice ad hominem attack there.

I have like 30 something Myspace friends. However, I do have a Ph.D. I don't know if that addresses any of your concerns or not.

Fox News is chock-full of right wing propaganda, on top of being really poor journalism. I mean bottom of the barrel, make-up-your-own-facts journalism.

If I say something inaccurate then please correct me. Provide a link or something. I will correct myself. (Example -- "You also know nothing about how the primaries work" -- ???)

I'm sorry if we don't agree on Ron Paul. But that does not make me an idiot.

Ron Paul has broken all records for donations within 24 hours of any candidate in history, his supporters have launched a blimp without any help from the Ron Paul campaign, his supporters have more meet up groups than any other candidate, republican or democrat, he has won over half of the straw polls, and what he didn't win he usually came in 3rd or 2nd, and you are still naive enough to think this guy doesn't have a chance at winning? Might I also remind you that very few people vote in the primaries, and phone polls given only represent what people want, but not what people are willing to get off their ass and vote for, hence they are not very accurate in determining how well Ron Paul will do when voting day comes. I don't need a link to back up simple common sense.

You also conveniently avoided how I pointed out you don't know much about what Ron Paul supports when you stated he supports a flat tax to replace the IRS, something he has repeatedly said he does not support. Maybe you were thinking of Mike Huckabee because he supports that, but not Ron Paul. If you need a link google it yourself, this isn't hard information to dig up on the net and if you were half as smart as you try to portray yourself you would already know more about Ron Paul than myself. I'm not doing your political homework, you're the social scientist, so simple research should come naturally to you, right?