TERRORISM

[LaidZeppelin]

and you really think Iran would assure their complete distruction by attacking israel...even with US support. IRan attacks Israel, Iran is gone.

[Ozarks]

I am merely explaining where it comes from.....

No you're not, it came from an evil dictator who invaded Kuwait ignored UN resolutions and was kicked out of Kuwait by a world wide coalition.

The sanctions were left in place because HE never honored the terms of the surrender.

After which Saddam denied this people ANYTHING that HE could sell. America isn't responsible for those decisions.

a disastrous foreign policy.

If there's one thing 23 million liberated Iraqis agree on it's that they are better off with Saddam gone.

America did the right thing in 91 and America is doing the right thing now (whether you support the war or not) by staying and taking responsibility for Iraq until they can stand on their own.

[LaidZeppelin]

and half those people have fled the country....self determination does not mean having a foreign military force come in and dictate how your government will function...and fine lets say the war is right and we are doing the right thing...is it worth bankrupting AMERICA over....thats what is happening.....if we continue this policy the government wont be able to afford anything but the interest on the national debt. Taxes will got through the roof....Why is Iraqi freedom worth our freedom....WE ARE GOING BANKRUPT AND YOU DONT SEEM TO CARE. see even if i conceed that the war is the best thing ever, i still dont see how you can think depleting the treasury, devaluing the dollar, and borrowing billions from japan and chine will be in America's best interest. thats what i care about the continuation of the USA....FUCK IRAQ FUCK ISRAEL FUCK IRAN...I CARE ABOUT THE UNITED STATES

[Psycho4Bud]

the point is congress does not have the authority under the constitution to grant the president authority to go to war, you would need to ammend the constitution to do that. Therefore the act of granting authority to the president to go to war is unconstitutional.

A declaration of war is a formal declaration issued by a national government indicating that a state of war exists between that nation, and one or more others. For the United States, Article One, Section Eight of the Constitution says "Congress shall have power to ... declare War," however, that passage provides no specific format for what form legislation text must have to be considered a "Declaration of War" nor does the Constitution itself use this term. Many have postulated "Declaration(s) of War" must contain that phrase as or within the title. Many oppose that reasoning. The postulate has not been tested in court; however, this article will use the term "formal Declaration of War" to mean Congressional legislation that uses the phrase "Declaration of War" in the title.

Despite the constitutional requirement that Congress declare war, in practice, formal Declarations of War have occurred only upon prior request by the President.

After World War II, Congress voluntarily limited its use of the power to declare war to issuing authorizations of force. The War Powers Resolution of 1973 (Pub.L. 93-148) limits the power of the President to wage war without the approval of the Congress. The United States of America has formally declared war against foreign nations five separate times.
Declaration of war by the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And Congress did with BOTH Afghanistan and Iraq.......so these wars are valid under the Constitution.

Have a good one!:s4:

[BathingApes]

No you're not, it came from an evil dictator who invaded Kuwait ignored UN resolutions and was kicked out of Kuwait by a world wide coalition.

The sanctions were left in place because HE never honored the terms of the surrender.

After which Saddam denied this people ANYTHING that HE could sell. America isn't responsible for those decisions.





If there's one thing 23 million liberated Iraqis agree on it's that they are better off with Saddam gone.

America did the right thing in 91 and America is doing the right thing now (whether you support the war or not) by staying and taking responsibility for Iraq until they can stand on their own.

Okay, we aren't responsible for those decisions but we did atleast a little bit empower him by giving him weapons..

The way you phrased the last sentence makes it seem like Iraq will be fine in a couple of years. We could be there for decades. It also isn't the war itself, its more the fact that WMDs was a complete sack of bullshit fed to us by the government. An evil dictator or not why did they want to invade Iraq REALLY?

[LaidZeppelin]

and how did sadaam get the ability to invade kuwait......thats the problem with the foreign policy......geez why dont you get this.

[Psycho4Bud]

As I said, he WAS in support of military action against terrorists in Afghanistan, but now he wants the troops out as we STILL haven't found Osama and he thinks we are there for oil/something not to do with terrorists.

Oh and here is what you asked for:

Project Vote Smart - Authorization for Use of Military Force Member Vote List

About half way down he is there. You obviously dont agree with Paul's statements but I think you're so anti-paul that you assume he is against EVERYTHING you stand for.

That shocks me! He votes to use force and after we have accomplished this much he wants to bail? Sounds like a plan to me. How could he vote yes to this and NOW state that it was our fault in the first place........

Have a good one!:s4:

[Ozarks]

the point is congress does not have the authority under the constitution to grant the president authority to go to war,

The White house, Congress and the Supreme Court all disagree with you on that.

and having respect for the supreme law of the land.

That's a good thing:thumbsup:

Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq





Whereas in 1990 in response to Iraq's war of aggression against and illegal occupation of Kuwait, the United States forged a coalition of nations to liberate Kuwait and its people in order to defend the national security of the United States and enforce United Nations Security Council resolutions relating to Iraq;

Whereas after the liberation of Kuwait in 1991, Iraq entered into a United Nations sponsored cease-fire agreement pursuant to which Iraq unequivocally agreed, among other things, to eliminate its nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons programs and the means to deliver and develop them, and to end its support for international terrorism;

Whereas the efforts of international weapons inspectors, United States intelligence agencies, and Iraqi defectors led to the discovery that Iraq had large stockpiles of chemical weapons and a large scale biological weapons program, and that Iraq had an advanced nuclear weapons development program that was much closer to producing a nuclear weapon than intelligence reporting had previously indicated;

Whereas Iraq, in direct and flagrant violation of the cease-fire, attempted to thwart the efforts of weapons inspectors to identify and destroy Iraq's weapons of mass destruction stockpiles and development capabilities, which finally resulted in the withdrawal of inspectors from Iraq on October 31, 1998;

Whereas in 1998 Congress concluded that Iraq's continuing weapons of mass destruction programs threatened vital United States interests and international peace and security, declared Iraq to be in "material and unacceptable breach of its international obligations" and urged the President "to take appropriate action, in accordance with the Constitution and relevant laws of the United States, to bring Iraq into compliance with its international obligations" (Public Law 105-235);

Whereas Iraq both poses a continuing threat to the national security of the United States and international peace and security in the Persian Gulf region and remains in material and unacceptable breach of its international obligations by, among other things, continuing to possess and develop a significant chemical and biological weapons capability, actively seeking a nuclear weapons capability, and supporting and harboring terrorist organizations;

Whereas Iraq persists in violating resolutions of the United Nations Security Council by continuing to engage in brutal repression of its civilian population thereby threatening international peace and security in the region, by refusing to release, repatriate, or account for non-Iraqi citizens wrongfully detained by Iraq, including an American serviceman, and by failing to return property wrongfully seized by Iraq from Kuwait;

Whereas the current Iraqi regime has demonstrated its capability and willingness to use weapons of mass destruction against other nations and its own people;

Whereas the current Iraqi regime has demonstrated its continuing hostility toward, and willingness to attack, the United States, including by attempting in 1993 to assassinate former President Bush and by firing on many thousands of occasions on United States and Coalition Armed Forces engaged in enforcing the resolutions of the United Nations Security Council;

Whereas members of al Qaida, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks on the United States, its citizens, and interests, including the attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, are known to be in Iraq;

Whereas Iraq continues to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations, including organizations that threaten the lives and safety of American citizens;

Whereas the attacks on the United States of September 11, 2001 underscored the gravity of the threat posed by the acquisition of weapons of mass destruction by international terrorist organizations;

Whereas Iraq's demonstrated capability and willingness to use weapons of mass destruction, the risk that the current Iraqi regime will either employ those weapons to launch a surprise attack against the United States or its Armed Forces or provide them to international terrorists who would do so, and the extreme magnitude of harm that would result to the United States and its citizens from such an attack, combine to justify action by the United States to defend itself;

Whereas United Nations Security Council Resolution 678 authorizes the use of all necessary means to enforce United Nations Security Council Resolution 660 and subsequent relevant resolutions and to compel Iraq to cease certain activities that threaten international peace and security, including the development of weapons of mass destruction and refusal or obstruction of United Nations weapons inspections in violation of United Nations Security Council Resolution 687, repression of its civilian population in violation of United Nations Security Council Resolution 688, and threatening its neighbors or United Nations operations in Iraq in violation of United Nations Security Council Resolution 949;

Whereas Congress in the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution (Public Law 102-1) has authorized the President "to use United States Armed Forces pursuant to United Nations Security Council Resolution 678 (1990) in order to achieve implementation of Security Council Resolutions 660, 661, 662, 664, 665, 666, 667, 669, 670, 674, and 677";

Whereas in December 1991, Congress expressed its sense that it "supports the use of all necessary means to achieve the goals of United Nations Security Council Resolution 687 as being consistent with the Authorization of Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution (Public Law 102-1)," that Iraq's repression of its civilian population violates United Nations Security Council Resolution 688 and "constitutes a continuing threat to the peace, security, and stability of the Persian Gulf region," and that Congress, "supports the use of all necessary means to achieve the goals of United Nations Security Council Resolution 688";

Whereas the Iraq Liberation Act (Public Law 105-338) expressed the sense of Congress that it should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove from power the current Iraqi regime and promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime;

Whereas on September 12, 2002, President Bush committed the United States to "work with the United Nations Security Council to meet our common challenge" posed by Iraq and to "work for the necessary resolutions," while also making clear that "the Security Council resolutions will be enforced, and the just demands of peace and security will be met, or action will be unavoidable";

Whereas the United States is determined to prosecute the war on terrorism and Iraq's ongoing support for international terrorist groups combined with its development of weapons of mass destruction in direct violation of its obligations under the 1991 cease-fire and other United Nations Security Council resolutions make clear that it is in the national security interests of the United States and in furtherance of the war on terrorism that all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions be enforced, including through the use of force if necessary;

Whereas Congress has taken steps to pursue vigorously the war on terrorism through the provision of authorities and funding requested by the President to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations or persons who planned, authorized, committed or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001 or harbored such persons or organizations;

Whereas the President and Congress are determined to continue to take all appropriate actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations or persons who planned, authorized, committed or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such persons or organizations;

Whereas the President has authority under the Constitution to take action in order to deter and prevent acts of international terrorism against the United States, as Congress recognized in the joint resolution on Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law 107-40); and

Whereas it is in the national security of the United States to restore international peace and security to the Persian Gulf region;

Now, therefore, be it resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SEC. 1. SHORT TITLE.

This joint resolution may be cited as the "Authorization for the Use of Military Force Against Iraq".

SEC. 2. SUPPORT FOR UNITED STATES DIPLOMATIC EFFORTS

The Congress of the United States supports the efforts by the President to--

(a) strictly enforce through the United Nations Security Council all relevant Security Council resolutions applicable to Iraq and encourages him in those efforts; and

(b) obtain prompt and decisive action by the Security Council to ensure that Iraq abandons its strategy of delay, evasion and noncompliance and promptly and strictly complies with all relevant Security Council resolutions.

SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.

(a) AUTHORIZATION. The President is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to


(1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and
(2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council Resolutions regarding Iraq.

(b) PRESIDENTIAL DETERMINATION.

In connection with the exercise of the authority granted in subsection (a) to use force the President shall, prior to such exercise or as soon there after as may be feasible, but no later than 48 hours after exercising such authority, make available to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President pro tempore of the Senate his determination that

(1) reliance by the United States on further diplomatic or other peaceful means alone either (A) will not adequately protect the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq or (B) is not likely to lead to enforcement of all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq, and

(2) acting pursuant to this resolution is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations or persons who planned, authorized, committed or aided the terrorists attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.

(c) WAR POWERS RESOLUTION REQUIREMENTS. --


(1) SPECIFIC STATUTORY AUTHORIZATION. -- Consistent with section 8(a)(1) of the War Powers Resolution, the Congress declares that this section is intended to constitute specific statutory authorization within the meaning of section 5(b) of the War Powers Resolution.
(2) APPLICABILITY OF OTHER REQUIREMENTS. -- Nothing in this resolution supersedes any requirement of the War Powers Resolution.

SEC. 4. REPORTS TO CONGRESS

(a) The President shall, at least once every 60 days, submit to the Congress a report on matters relevant to this joint resolution, including actions taken pursuant to the exercise of authority granted in section 2 and the status of planning for efforts that are expected to be required after such actions are completed, including those actions described in section 7 of Public Law 105-338 (the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998).

(b) To the extent that the submission of any report described in subsection (a) coincides with the submission of any other report on matters relevant to this joint resolution otherwise required to be submitted to Congress pursuant to the reporting requirements of Public Law 93-148 (the War Powers Resolution), all such reports may be submitted as a single consolidated report to the Congress.

(c) To the extent that the information required by section 3 of Public Law 102-1 is included in the report required by this section, such report shall be considered as meeting the requirements of section 3 of Public Law 102-1.

[Ozarks]

and how did sadaam get the ability to invade kuwait......thats the problem with the foreign policy......geez why dont you get this.

I get that you want somebody other than Saddam to be responsible for what he did and the decisions he made.

That's not the way the world works.

geez why don't you get this ?

[BathingApes]

A declaration of war is a formal declaration issued by a national government indicating that a state of war exists between that nation, and one or more others. For the United States, Article One, Section Eight of the Constitution says "Congress shall have power to ... declare War," however, that passage provides no specific format for what form legislation text must have to be considered a "Declaration of War" nor does the Constitution itself use this term. Many have postulated "Declaration(s) of War" must contain that phrase as or within the title. Many oppose that reasoning. The postulate has not been tested in court; however, this article will use the term "formal Declaration of War" to mean Congressional legislation that uses the phrase "Declaration of War" in the title.

Despite the constitutional requirement that Congress declare war, in practice, formal Declarations of War have occurred only upon prior request by the President.

After World War II, Congress voluntarily limited its use of the power to declare war to issuing authorizations of force. The War Powers Resolution of 1973 (Pub.L. 93-148) limits the power of the President to wage war without the approval of the Congress. The United States of America has formally declared war against foreign nations five separate times.
Declaration of war by the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And Congress did with BOTH Afghanistan and Iraq.......so these wars are valid under the Constitution.

Have a good one!:s4:

Forget if it was illegal or legal, it's unproveable so it doesn't even matter. What is your position on the fallacy of WMDs? You can't possibly think that was true can you? The whole premise from which we rationalised our invasion is a complete lie.

Terrorists or not, evil dictator or not, that was never mentioned to us. Most people seem to argue all these details about terrorists in iraq, whether saddam was evil etc, and think that that is actually valid justification. I'm not sure if you realise the global impact but the world is the stage and the USA is THE major player. It's not just a little thing. We were lied to and those lies were used to justify a war.

9/11 despite what you think had nothing to do with Saddam and you can read that in the government's report. So why the invasion? You have to realise no matter how anti-liberal you are that the main reason we took to declare war was completely untrue. What has been accomplished? Saddam is no longer in power - Okay that's good, but are the Iraqi people liberated, are they really free? For the most part I imagine they live in constant fear. And we are going to be stuck there for decades.

I believe that soon we will invade Iran. And then what? How do you see this ending? Or do you hope that it will go past your time and your children will have to make the decision.