Hydro Nute Problem with pics... Help Needed

[MVP]

I've been trying to figure out what type of problem I have here. The bubbler hold 4 plants (2 master kush, 1 blueberry, 1 super skunk). Two of the four plants have the same issue (one MK and the super skunk), they other 2 seem okay, maybe slight P def. Leaf pics are from MK, they are the tallest. I also have 2 MKs in dirt in same room with no problems at all. Here are some details:

-indoor
-hydroponic
-hydroton
-DWC system type
-Water is 1/2 RO and 1/2 tap
-Water pH is 5.8 (+/- .1 to .2)
-Age = 5 weeks into flower, approx 3 ft tall
-using Pure Blend Pro + Karma + Sweet
-running approx 1200 ppm
-400 HPS approx 8-12 in from plants
-Temperature = high 85, low 65
-50% Relative humidity
-11/13 light/dark cycle
-using 449 crn vortex in small 4'x2' closet 6.5' tall

I think I might be pushing them running 1200ppm at their size. Also looks like poss. nute def. Need opinions and help.

PIC 1 is front of leaf specimen

PIC 2 is back of leaf specimen

Thanks for any help I can get...


MVP

MVP Reviewed by MVP on 11-17-2007. Hydro Nute Problem with pics... Help Needed I've been trying to figure out what type of problem I have here. The bubbler hold 4 plants (2 master kush, 1 blueberry, 1 super skunk). Two of the four plants have the same issue (one MK and the super skunk), they other 2 seem okay, maybe slight P def. Leaf pics are from MK, they are the tallest. I also have 2 MKs in dirt in same room with no problems at all. Here are some details: -indoor -hydroponic -hydroton -DWC system type -Water is 1/2 RO and 1/2 tap -Water pH is 5.8 (+/- .1 to Rating: 5

[MVP]

Here's a bigger, more detailed pic of the back of the leaf...

[Weedhound]

I'll take a couple of guesses but thats really all they are....guesses.

1. Maybe need some CalMag.
2. fert building up in the medium. I've had this issue both in hydrotn AND higromite rocks but I use a drip system so...as I said.....guess. But the nute buildup in my medium REALLY played havoc with my plants.


MVP....what kind of ppm meter do you use?

[MVP]

Hey WH, cute doggies!

I use a Hanna Primo meter, calibrate using their 1382 solution 2x month or so. I also use the Hanna pHep meter for temp and PH.

http://boards.cannabis.com/attachmen...ctive-6802.jpg

[Weedhound]

Ok just trying to get a line on ppms....

Do your numbers go up after a few days and if so...how high? I use the Botanicare line myself and have noticed that anything over 1500 (and I'll drop my number if I see it above 1425) will over nute my plants. I use a Hanna as well so we are probably reading the same amounts.

I'm seriously wondering if you need some CalMag tho.....half and half on the water....no way to know if there is enough minerals etc in there or not. I've also read that too much of one nute/,mineral etc can lock another out.

My numbers in week 5 usually go 1/3 CalMag, 1/3 Pro Bloom and 1/3 Hydroplex....equaling about 1000 ppms. Then I added LK and Sweet for a total of 1350-ish. On my rhino grow when I tried to raise the base nutes higher I ran into troubles.

I imagine your ppm of base nutes is about...1000? That's about 300 more than I would use. Just throwing out my experiences here so don't know if ANY of this info will help or not.

[MVP]

This happened after I went to 1/2 RO and 1/2 tap since at the same time I lowered my Pure Blend Pro to keep PPM down. I'm running in the 1200 - 1300 total range, however will be doing a flush soon and then back things down to keep it in the ~ 1000 neighborhood. I think I may have a lock out happening as I am too high on the Liquid Karma/Sweet and too low on the Pure Blend Pro. I am now watching my PPMs closely when mixing nutes. Water (1/2-1/2) = 175 PPM, then add Karma/Sweet to get to ~ 400-450 PPM, then add PBP Bloom to get up to the approx 1000 target.

I'm kinda perplexed since last cycle (Black Domina / Blueberry) I didn't measure PPMs, just followed Botanicare instructions - which I now know to be too strong - and it kicked butt. I am pretty sure its a lack of base nutes and perhaps lock out that is causing issues. I'd better get it right soon as harvest is probably within the next 4 weeks.

My PH and PPM are not moving too much which is a bit abnormal. Like they are not feeding and excreting too much. What do you think?

[Weedhound]

Well I like the number on your base nutes.....I use 700 (50/50 Pro Bloom/Hydroplex)
and then 300CalMag to 1000. As I said when I tried to raise the number of the bloom nutes above that I started to have some real problems. I've heard various numbers about the LK and Sweet....the two best hydro minds I know are my hydro guy and Rhizome. Between those two guys (and the ppms) I've worked what I think works best for me with the LK and Sweet getting the optimum of each without wasting any that the plants arent going to use anyway. I go with 7ml/gallon of each...no more of either. I KNOW the number can go much higher...but imo most it is being wasted after that. AND adding useless ppms also so that's my limit with those. Put ALL those together and you are very close to my top ppm # of 1500....(i like some breathing room) with my nutes.

Its very hard to say about them not eating....do you have too many extras in your water that are just taking up space perhaps?.....and I still think you need some CalMAg. And of course different strains will do better (or worse) with the changes in ppms. My first grow (bagseed) I went WAY high with the numbers not knowing any better. The plants did TERRIFIC. The next time I tried taking the numbers that high the plants crashed (different strain) so who knows?

[MVP]

After researching my water quality and content, I decided to go back to tap water since it has decent CA and MG levels. I'll top off with RO but base nutes will be prepared with tap.

Yesterday afternoon I mixed new nutes as follows:
Tap water, 3 gallons = 315 base PPM
added 3ml Zone root conditioner, raised to 318 PPM
added 15 ml Liquid Karma, raised it to 405 PPM
added 15 ml Sweet, raised to 520 PPM
added 30 ml Pure Blend Pro Flower, raised to 925 PPM
had to add 4.5 ml Down to get PH to 5.8

Today I checked it and PH was 6.3 and PPM was 1081. Added approx 3 ml Down to get it to 5.8 PH, and left nutes at 1081 until this evening when I take further readings.

It's been approx 18 hours since the nute change, not noticeably change for better or for worse yet. I'll update again this evening.

And yes, advice is welcome if you have soem for me!

[MVP]

Got back too late and lights were out. I'll report status tomorrow.

Anyone got ideas on what happened here?

[Zcomp]

not really man but when I have problems, I make good use of foliar sprays to detect which nutes need adding. But I do grow in soil so its your call.