Can't figure out what's wrong...

[Illusion]

3 weeks from bagseed,
1" rockwool cubes (pH buffered) and hydroton,
8" net pots in five gallon buckets with bottoms cut out.
Flood & Drain / Ebb & Flow,
40 gallon reservoir. (res temp 71 F)
RH = 40%
Growroom temp = 75-78 F
250watt HPS light, with two 48" Floro tubes as side lighting, and a CFL for good measure.


for the first 2 weeks, no nutes, plain RO water with a base ppm of 25
then last week changed reservoir to 100 ppm.
maintaining 5.5-5.8 pH

Showed signs of yellowing on the cotyledons today, bumped ppm up to 175.
Extremely slow growth... using GH microgrow with liquid karma, hydroguard, calmag, and superthrive, all in miniscule amounts as my ppm is only 175 currently from a base of 25.



The plant that is drooping's rockwool cube was farther down on the flood line, which is why I believe that it was overwatered. (the cube was very moist on the top when I checked). None of the other plants show signs of under/over watering

So I raised the rockwool cube on the droopy plant so it was higher up, so only the roots below the rockwool cube will flood, not the rockwool cube at all.

It has been about 3 days, and has not improved. Can it still be in the position of OVERwatering, but actually be underwatered now since the rockwool isnt getting remoistened?

Why are they growing so slow.. I know it's not just in my head
Only one of the plant's has roots below the net pot, which is amazing because these net pots are SO deep, and the plant is SO small.
I was not expecting to see roots at all.

advice please !! i would be greatful

Illusion Reviewed by Illusion on 11-17-2007. Can't figure out what's wrong... 3 weeks from bagseed, 1" rockwool cubes (pH buffered) and hydroton, 8" net pots in five gallon buckets with bottoms cut out. Flood & Drain / Ebb & Flow, 40 gallon reservoir. (res temp 71 F) RH = 40% Growroom temp = 75-78 F 250watt HPS light, with two 48" Floro tubes as side lighting, and a CFL for good measure. Rating: 5

[Illusion]

Here are pictures of the drooping plant, which shall now be known as Mr. Droopy

the last picture is trying to show how far the HPS light is away, about 16" or so.

[Weedhound]

The only thing I can guess....if your ph NEVER strays....you need more nutes. Those things look about 3 days old vs 3 weeks.....I think you are low on ppms

[Weedhound]

i'd stop everything you are doing and do this.....RO water.....Cal Mag 200ppm and Grow nutes 200 ppm....ph 5.6-6.2. You've got everything but the kitchen sink in there.

Mr Droopy looks like he is circling the drain there so maybe you shouldn't have named him.

Water him with new mixture as well. I think you dried him up....hopefully not too much.

Good luck.

[Illusion]

hah. Naming it was probably a horrible idea. I will be devistated if it doesn't make it.

Ill concentrate on having Mr droopy's cube nice and MOIST, not wet, by hand watering, even though it looks over watered.

What's in my reservoir is mostly cal mag, and grow nutes- besides the 1 drop per gallon of superthrive and WAY miniscule amounts of liquid karma/hydroguard

So basically i shoudl just add 100 more ppm of calmag, and 100 more ppm of grow nutes to take your advice


I think I can smell a burn coming along....

[Weedhound]

Well let me put it this way.....you've had three weeks with almost no nutes and where are you?

The problem is either nutes or ph. As far as I'm concerned.....you don't have enough of ANY of them to help a plant at all

I start my seedlings at one drop superthrive per gallon....for one week. Second week....100 CalMag and 100 Pro Grow....after that the numbers will starting hitting 500 and 600 very quickly once I starting using LK and Sweet (usually around the third week)

They are your plants.....you are free to treat them any way you wish. You asked...thats the only reason I said anything. Its alot harder to troubleshoot a problem when you have 16 factors involved rather than 2 or 3.

Good luck.

[Weedhound]

How many tiimes a day are you watering them? Is the RW mostly drying out between waterings? That's the ONLY other thing I can think of besides nutes or ph.....soggy roots not getting enough oxygen.

Hope you figure it out.

Good luck.

[Illusion]

you don't have any idea how much i appreciate your help! I would be going crazy... (okay i still am)

I water them 3 times a day. The pump runs for 8 minutes. it reaches the top of the flood line at about 6 to 7 minutes. Its a friggin HUGE flood tray, fitting five gallon buckets completely, and takes about 20-30 gallons to fill the entire tray.

lights come on at 8AM, turn off at 2AM

1st Flood: 8:30AM
2nd Flood: 5:30PM
3rd Flood: 12:30AM

Only the very bottoms of the rockwool is touching the flood line (if at all?) the tops of the rockwool cubes are compeltely dry. The reason why i moved Mr Droopy, was because the top of the cube wasn't dry in addition to the overwatered symptoms.


Im using the General hydroponic PH test, where you drop 3 drops of liquid into a vial, and compare to the color chart. the PH will raise from 5.5 to about 6.0 in a couple days, and then i reset it back to around 5.5


Also, When i have been checking the ppm of the reservoir, when i had it set at 100pm, the next day I would check on it and it would be like 115, then the next day, 130 ppm.

This would make me think that the plants were using more water than nutrients, and so I wouldn't have to bump up the ppm anymore... very confusing stuff.


sorry if i'm bringing too many variables into the equation. Just very confused. I gotta be patient...

[Weedhound]

Ok....sorry and I'll put my fur back down too.

It HAS to be one of those three things. Your light is good from your photo and your room temps are good as well. You're doing everything right from what I can see except for your low ppms.....and the rockwool. I've heard of issues with it regarding both holding too much water (overwatering) and having a low ph but don't use it myself so have no real personal experience with it.

Your ppms may be rising but not necessarily for the reason you mentioned. When was the last time you changed the rez completely? I would make that a weekly thing if you can....complete res change.

When the plants eat they pick and choose what they want from the nutes available. They may snarf up TONS of nitrogen and leave the potassium behind....but it won't show in your numbers which simply reflect the TOTAL of ppms in your water....not the ratios of each nute. Do you see what I mean? Thats one of the reasons a res change is so helpful.....to restore the correct balance of nutes.

Checking ph with a liquid test is fine....but DONT use any ph adjusters for aquariums...they are way too high in salts for your plants. (just fyi)

[Illusion]

its been about 2 weeks since the reservoir was changed. I'll start filling up RO water tomorrow. It's going to take a really long time to get 40 gallons, the tank fills around a gallon an hour.

i didnt think about the nutrient uptake before, that makes perfect sense. so the more reservoir changes, the better. '

When i top off, in addition to the grow nutesshould I use the liquid karma and superthrive? Or just have those in the beginning when i fill the res?