the "water crystal" experiment thread

[SecondNut]

I'm starting a new thread to discuss my experiment as it progresses with copolymer water gel crystals (called various names such as "Water Keep", "SoilMoist", "Cracked Ice", "California Crystals", etc).

Yesterday I ordered a 1-lb container of SoilMoist Granules for $10+shipping, and it shipped today so I should have it within 7 days or so. However, I wanted to go ahead and jumpstart this thing now, so I tracked down a freebie scoop of California Crystals at a local florist.

Yesterday morning I started a pre-soak of some random bagseed (I want to experiment on bagseed first, before pulling out the expensive guns). What I do is put a few ounces of distilled water and 1/2-cap of hydrogen peroxide in a glass and let the seeds soak for 24 hours in a dark, warm place. After about 12 hours I give the glass a gentle spin, because the small amount of h2o2 causes little bubbles of oxygen to form around the seeds which makes them want to float.

Last night I prepped the water crystals. This would be for the germination+seedling pot, so I decided to use filtered water (a Britta filter) instead of distilled so there would be at least a few minerals in the water when (if?) they sprouted. I filtered one gallon of water and added one cap of hydrogen peroxide. The instructions on the package said to use one teaspoon per 24 ozs of water. This seems a little light on the water to me, given the absorption rate these things have, which is 200 to 400 times their size. Given this, 1 teaspoon should absorb from 32 to 64 ozs of water. I presume the reason for 24-oz directions, was to ensure the crystals expanded but still had some firmness to them and wouldn't be too "wet". I did not follow those directions. I wanted the crystals at their maximum absorption.

So what I did was put one teaspoon of the dry crystals in a large 4-quart bowl, and started with 32 oz of water. After a couple of hours, the crystals had expanded and absorbed all the water -- there was no excess at all. So I added another 12 oz and checked back in an hour. Still no excess water. By now it was time to go to bed, so I added another 12 oz, covered the bowl to prevent evaporation, and went to bed.

This morning I checked the crystals, and this time there was some standing water. I took a tea strainer and started scooping out the crystals, holding the strainer over the sink and shaking off excess water. This created way more crystals than I needed, so I put what I needed in a cup and checked on the seeds.

Three of the seeds (out of about 10) had already popped a nub, and I put all 10 in the cup. I put them about 1/4-inch down into the crystals, and put the cup back in the warm, dark place to see who sprouts. I took a couple of pictures of the seeds in the crystals, but I'll wait until/if somebody sprouts before I post any pictures.

A couple of things right off the bat. The cup of crystals was actually pretty cool (as in temperature). I assume this is because the crystals have a lot of surface area and water evaporates evenly from all areas, cooling the whole thing down. So before I dropped in the seeds I wrapped the cup in a heating pad for about 20 minutes. If the cup is still too cool this evening when I get home, I will probably have to put a heating pad under it permanently.

Another thing I noticed is that the crystals are pretty soft. This makes me wonder if the seed will try to heave out when the taproot pushes down. But I don't think it will, since I believe the root will push down easier into the soft crystals than the husk will pushing up since it has more surface area. The other concern with this is whether it will be a sturdy enough medium for the roots to support the plant. I think it will, since a spoon inserted into the cup stands up by itself, but they are definitely mushy. If I have to deal with that later, I guess it means they're growing so it's a good problem to have!

The last problem I'm currently wrestling with is how to protect the crystals from light once I move each seedling to it's own "pot" and under the lights. My idea right now is to use something like a tiny Christmas tree skirt around the seedling, made out of black felt or something else that wont allow light through.

Any suggestions and comments are welcome!

SecondNut Reviewed by SecondNut on 11-07-2007. the "water crystal" experiment thread I'm starting a new thread to discuss my experiment as it progresses with copolymer water gel crystals (called various names such as "Water Keep", "SoilMoist", "Cracked Ice", "California Crystals", etc). Yesterday I ordered a 1-lb container of SoilMoist Granules for $10+shipping, and it shipped today so I should have it within 7 days or so. However, I wanted to go ahead and jumpstart this thing now, so I tracked down a freebie scoop of California Crystals at a local florist. Yesterday Rating: 5

[syco copf4i]

Hey thanks for your experiment, I've always wondered if that crystal stuff would make for a good grow, keep us updated.

[SecondNut]

When I got home last night, the surface of the water crystals felt way too cold. A probe thermometer showed the temp at around 70 degrees, but it felt colder to me. I guess water crystals make great evaporation coolers! But 70 is on the borderline of being too cold for germination. So I set up heating pad around the cup, with about 1 inch distance between the heating pad and the cup all the way around. This morning the temp was exactly 80 degrees down inside the cup, and about 78 just under the surface where the seeds are. This seems perfect, I just wish I had checked the temp before I put the seeds in!

Now, I just need to be patient and see what happens. I hope that being so cool for almost 12 hours didn't stress the seeds or stop the germination altogether. Crossing my fingers on that one...

[SecondNut]

One cool thing about the crystals is that because they're clear, you can actually see what's going on below the surface (well, sort of -- it's like looking through water that has a lot of ripples on the surface). I can see several of the seeds have roots. The seeds that don't appear to have roots may actually have them, they may just be growing straight down so I can't see them.

I may have made a mistake starting with the "California Crystals" brand instead of waiting for the SoilMoist to come in. They are much larger when expanded than the smaller crystals like SoilMoist. Hopefully it won't be too much of a problem, and when I transplant them it will be into the SoilMoist granulated crystals.

Because they are so clear, I have been concerned about light getting to the roots. I think I may have found a solution: black food coloring. The crystals will take on whatever color the water is. I'm not sure yet how much the food coloring will affect PPM, but assuming it doesn't increase PPM too much, that definitely seems the way to go.

More updates to come...

[klondike_bar]

see, thats not at all good. if you can see the roots, the roots can see you, or to the point, the lights. cover that up or your guaranteed algea and other underwater plantlife like mad

[SecondNut]

see, thats not at all good. if you can see the roots, the roots can see you, or to the point, the lights. cover that up or your guaranteed algea and other underwater plantlife like mad

Yeah, I forgot to mention that I'm keeping it covered except for twice a day when I peek on them. I'd say light gets in about 4 minutes a day, tops.

[klondike_bar]

ok...i was kinda wondering why there werent already emergency "algae on my exposed roots!!!!!!! HELP!!!" threads yet....


any idea yet if the crystals allow the roots easy growth? Ie: faster than soil, slower than hydro?

[SecondNut]

any idea yet if the crystals allow the roots easy growth? Ie: faster than soil, slower than hydro?

Not yet, that's what I'm hoping to find out. The crystals have already been proven to be much, much better than soil and the equal of traditional hydroponics with other plants (e.g. tomatoes, lucky bamboo, ivies, and others).

Here's what I think would be cool if the crystals work as a hydroponic medium for cannabis.

• No pumps. The theory is that the crystals provide enough room and retain enough dissolved oxygen that a pump (air or water) is unnecessary. This means...
• No leaks. You don't have to worry about leaking around your pump fittings.
• Fewer root nasties: the crystals are naturally antibacterial and antifungal. (Of course, you still have to worry about algae forming if too much light gets to the crystals.

There's probably more I could add, but I gotta run.

[Opie Yutts]

Pictures, man. Where are the pictures?

[SecondNut]

Sorry, there's nothing much to take a picture of. I'm about ready to call this experiment a failure, at least as far as sprouting is concerned. I think the problem is that the crystals are too soft and slippery to give the roots anything to grip, so nothing can ever push up and break the surface.

The roots I do see are aiming sideways and some are even starting to curve up towards the surface. I've tried to take a picture of this, but the surface area of the crystals are too reflective (like glass) and it just doesn't come out. But this bizarre taproot growth is not good, it says to me that the germinated seeds have gotten confused in the medium.

Ok, so the idea of just putting seeds directly into the crystals turns out not to be a good one (based on this one experiment). I'm still holding out hope that it will made a good hydroponic medium -- just not a good one for sprouting seedlings. Perhaps it will work well to root clones. As a matter of fact, that may be my next experiment.

I'll let this continue to "cook" for another week, just in case, but I'm basically calling it done.