The great gun-control debate

[netdog]

Unfortunately the actual crime figures show more guns just equals more violent crime.
A Time Line of Recent Worldwide School Shootings — Infoplease.com

Yep funny how they seem to only happen in "gun free" zones though...

[Mississippi Steve]

That's all well and good, but define an "assault weapon"...

Assault weapon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[pinkyslayer]

can you honestly say that rifles are ok but shotguns not so much on the grounds that you don't need to "disintegrate the burglar's head".....you obviously don't know anything about guns...a 50cal. will take a mans head off at well over a mile away(research that before you say it's not true) "As I see it, handguns really serve no other purpose but to kill people. You don't hunt with a handgun"....we have deer seasons for pistols here in the us.......

I agree with Indicagrower completely. I read a quote somewhere, I think a military guy saying "pistols poke holes in things, rifles rip shit apart." A shotgun loaded with birdshot is actually nonlethal much of the time in a self defense setting, but it is certainly almost as effective as a pistol or rifle. Also, shotguns, at least in the US, are used for hunting deer, quail, dove, hogs, turkey, and used for recreational activities like skeet and trap shooting. Also, responsible citizens that take and pass a test in the US are allowed to carry concealed weapons(ie pistols) in their car for self defense. It is impossible to defend yourself out in public against a mugger or carjacker with a rifle, because you cant carry a rifle around with you!!! But I think we would all agree that their needs to be a strict enforcement of the requirements for owning and buying guns, so as to keep the guns out of criminals hands.

[netdog]

Assault weapon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Exactly, notice no clear definition of assault rifle exists even in that wiki.

Then there's the definition the supposed assault weapons ban used, which in reality didn't define a weapon at all, and didn't actually ban a single weapon.

[Mississippi Steve]

Exactly, notice no clear definition of assault rifle exists even in that wiki.

Then there's the definition the supposed assault weapons ban used, which in reality didn't define a weapon at all, and didn't actually ban a single weapon.

OK... lets make it simple... assault weapons are those that either have a fully automatic mode, or can be modified to be fully automatic and were designed strictly for military and/or law enforcement use.

Any more questions??? or are you just trying to stir up sh*t??

[the image reaper]

easiest to express my gun-rights attitude this way: "take away my guns, you'll have to take away my knives and clubs, too ... and then, I'll beat you to death with my bare hands" :wtf: ... oh, shit, and here you thought taking away my guns would make us all sit down and love one another ... :jointsmile:

[Nailhead]

Exactly, notice no clear definition of assault rifle exists even in that wiki.

Then there's the definition the supposed assault weapons ban used, which in reality didn't define a weapon at all, and didn't actually ban a single weapon.

I used to believe assault weapons are unnecessary and should be banned, then a gun owning friend showed me how easily gun manufacturers and buyers can get around just about all of these silly gun laws. Silly laws such as removing the pistol grip from an AK-47, or not allowing 30 round magazines. You can legally own an AK-47, detachable pistol grip, and 30 round magazine, you just can't have them connected to the gun. (maybe the 30 round clip is illegal to own come to think of it, but I'm sure a lot of people still have them)

Does this make any sense? No, and most gun owners ignore these laws but still remain peaceful, law abiding citizens. So my attitude is that I would rather have law abiding citizens free to arm themselves as much as criminals can. Criminals arm themselves so they can one-up the general public, so if we don't allow them that ability to one-up their targets, you take away their confidence to commit criminal activities.

I often joke with my friend that when China invades, I'm heading over to his house. I'm not afraid of my friend because he owns guns, I've known him all my life and know he would never use them for anything other than self defense, but mostly he just enjoys it as a hobby. If every law abiding citizen owned a gun, criminals would think twice before breaking into someone's house, or robbing a convenient store. Assault weapons are important because that gives our law abiding citizens better accuracy.

[Iguana]

Unfortunately the actual crime figures show more guns just equals more violent crime.
A Time Line of Recent Worldwide School Shootings — Infoplease.com

My apologies for the delay in replying. Life is busy.

While each of the items you list are tragedies, listing anecdotal incidents isn't listing crime figures. I can list just as many (if not more) cases where firearms were used to protect the innocent and save lives.

I can state that during the six years since Michigan joined the majority of states that offer citizens a shall-issue Right-to-Carry law the number of firearm-related fatalities has dropped. Criminal activity has dwindled while the number of Michiganders legally licensed to carry a concealed handgun has increased by about six times. Approx. 155,000 Michiganders are now so licensed. These results aren't surprising. John Lott, visiting professor at the University of Maryland, has spent years researching violence in the United States. 2/3rds of the studies he has seen show that Right-to-Carry laws reduce crime. The other 1/3rd show little effect on the status quo. No peer reviewed study has ever indicated that crime increased after passage of such laws. Michigan law requires that those seeking a permit must complete a strict training process and pay a licensing fee. People who comply with such requirements tend not to be offenders. Here are some studies for your examination: Prof. Hans Toch, "Research and Policy: The Case of Gun Control," in Psychology and Social Policy, edited by Peter Sutfeld and Philip Tetlock (NY Hemisphere, 1992); David B. Mustard, "Culture Affects Our Beliefs About Firearms, But Data Are Also Important," 151 U. Penn. L. Rev.1387 (2003) As a young researcher Toch believed that "reducing the availability of the handgun will reduce firearms violence." Thirty years of research later he repudiated that: "When used for protection, firearms can seriously inhibit aggression and can provide a psychological buffer against the fear of crime. Furthermore, the fact that national patterns show little violent crime where guns are most dense implies that guns do not elicit aggression in any meaningful way. Quite the contrary, these findings suggest that high saturation of guns in places, or something correlated with that condition, inhibit illegal aggression." Prof. David Mustard wrote in the University of Pennsylvania Law Review: "When I started my research in 1995, I passionately disliked firearms...My views on this subject were formed primarily by media accounts of firearms, which unknowingly to me systematically emphasized the costs of firearms while virtually ignoring their benefits. I thought it obvious that passing laws that permitted law abiding citizens to carry concealed firearms would create many problems. (But research has convinced me that)...laws that require [Right-to-Carry] permits to be granted unless the applicant has a criminal record or a history of significant mental illness reduce violent crime and have no impact on accidental deaths."

I hope you found this to be informative and consider this in an objective manner.

[netdog]

OK... lets make it simple... assault weapons are those that either have a fully automatic mode, or can be modified to be fully automatic and were designed strictly for military and/or law enforcement use.

Any more questions??? or are you just trying to stir up sh*t??

No just trying to educate and maybe get folks to think, the term assault weapons is a much misused and misunderstood term.

Any weapon that has a fully automatic mode has been illegal since the 1934 national firearms act, when a tax act was passed. You can still own one, but you have to go through a thorough check and pay the ATF their tax.

This was in large part in response to the violent organized crime wave spawned by prohibition, Alcohol prohibition. Just as gun control now IMHO is a misguided effort to curb crime spawned by our current prohibition and the violent organized crime it has produced.

Most semi auto rifles can be converted to full auto easily, and most have never been in military use. They are just as lethal as any semi auto rifle that looks like it was made for military use.

Which is why congress passed a feel good law and called it an assault weapon ban to pacify the public, after they found out the only thing that differs on a military rifle are superficial things like a bayonet, a pistol grip, and a flash suppressor.

So they banned those "scary looking" parts because their is no functional difference between those rifles and say a the ruger 10-22 or mini 14 that dads buy for their kids at Walmart. The gun dealers just removed those parts and went about their business.

Even today most folks have no idea that any automatic weapon has been very highly regulated since 1934, and have no idea that the "assault weapons ban" didn't ban a single weapon at all.