Some front line views of the war against God.

[Hardcore Newbie]

It's amazing to be free. Embrace existence =]

What was your turning point, if i may? anything in particular?

[Reefer Rogue]

I have reverted to my inital reaction and instinct. I feel i am a logical and rational person, who should base his beliefs in evidence rather then the lack of. I think the time attempting to believe in God has provided a more clear truth through the collision with error. Why wasn't I a muslim, or a jew or hindu? It's only because of the environment i live in which dictates which beliefs and values i may hold which i learn from people of that time frame. No one believes in Zeus or Thor. People cherry pick from the bible. I completely reject any form of racism, homophobia etc. Religion is a tool of control, playing on people's fears. I fear not. I am my own man and i can not rely on an afterlife. I do not lack morals without a God. Richard Dawkins really made me question my beliefs i had and i feel i am more comfortable as i originally was. How can an omnibenovolent being produce so much evil? A wise man proportions his beliefs to the evidence.

'Thus, although God may have made man in his own image, the concept of God is made in man's own image.' - David Hume

[Fallen_Icarus]

I seriously am starting to get bored of this thread alongside probably many others.

So ill be brief.

When you learn what evolution means, you won't make these kinds of assumptions.

I know exactly what evolution means, it is a process of development, a process in which something passes by degrees to a different stage.

Okay, now I think YOU should understand that the evolution I am talking about is on an extremely macro evolutionary basis and considering human evolution with regards to DARWINIST ORTHODOX evolution (you know, the one they teach in schools?), not just 'change'.

I mentioned this in my previous post, please read it thoroughly.

Why not consider it? There's nothing wrong with considering things but science that is taught in class rooms shouldn't be based on suppositions.

well, I dont think it is fair to call intelligent design a superstition, you need to understand the meanings of words before you enter these debates.

Your pertaining to the belief that we "consider" intelligent design through fear and ignorance, I dont call atleast the process of giving careful thought to something to be labelled an act of ignorance and fear.

I consider an intelligent designer, not because I am scared of the wrath of this intelligent designer (it could have died many a thousand year ago) but because I am open minded enough to hold the consideration of it.

Respect it and move on newbie.

From what I've read, we have a common ancestor with apes, if that's what you mean. I think this is based on solid fact, yes.

What your forgetting is that there is a missing link to show the evolutionary path between ape and human, and even so, the 'proof' you have described brings up many other new theories such as co existence.

This is why I said, do not presume evolution is 100% correct, the more evidence they find the more theories they open, and a strong theory by modern scientists is co existence.

I remember watching a documentary a while ago, a few years back (about 3) about this Brazilian archaeologist who was excavating in Peru, she found dinosaur footprints alongside man footprints and suggested that man literally walked with dinosaurs and co existed with them.

This is a very brief overview (im very tired) but may that not mar the authority of this description, this archaeologist lost her job, her research funds and her entire team was split up due to the finds. Simply because it went against the universal held 'truth' and assumption that we evolved from these ancient mammals.

Now. This is no superstition, so lets consider it lol.

I mentioned it because you brought up silver reflective skin, a detriment. Adapting silver skin would be devolution.

Well it depends on your interpretation and perception of this silver like skin, I mean if I was to wrap you in foil and send you out into the sun im sure it would not be very effective.

Is this the kind of work you believe can be linked to the likes of natural selection and billions of years of evolution.

This was my point, you can percieve the skin to be a magical absorbing material which calculates perfectly the correct amount of vitamin D and sunlight for the skin to be exposed to etc, which would be more fit a suit for survival.

Or you can look at it from the foil example.

Ill give you 3.8 Billion years to think about it.

From what I've read, we have a common ancestor with apes, if that's what you mean. I think this is based on solid fact, yes

So humans came from apes. Right.

Sorted, forget EVERYTHING ELSE.

Because our species originated in Africa.

Right, and what about the blisteringly cold nights of Africa?

This is why I said, fur would fluctuate in its tenacity, it would keep you cold as well as warm.

Which brings me to ask you the question.

Why donâ??t all animals lose their fur in Africa then? Maybe its because they donâ??t live by the stereotype that Africa is a burning hot continent 24 hours a day 7 days a week.

Newbie, loss of hair is not an unmixed blessing in regulating body temperature because the naked skin absorbs more energy in the heat of the day and loses more in the cold of the night.

You could have come up with a million better answers than the ones you give me, how about simply - vanity? or changes in human DNA - how about these?

There is no clear cut reason why this happend but there are certainly better theories than the ones you can come up with.

One has proof (evolution or "change") and one is just a supposition.

What did I say at the very start of this thread?

I said that evolution is good at explaining how lower life forms can form into more adapted 'higher' life forms, I agree with this, I also agree with evolution, there is nothing wrong with me coming here and hitting points out into the open about theories I may agree or even disagree with.

Im just saying be it the ignorance of many to pertain to the belief that studying evolution means that an intelligent designer could not have possibly created us or had any intervention on any level with our genes or anything of the kind is ignorant!

Why - when orthodox evolution be taught in school must we rule out intelligent design? There is no proof of intelligent just as their is no disproof of it, to remove it completely and then 100 years down the line realise it could actually be viable after all and co existence was true (and evolution) would be an embarrasing situation!

The truth is that Gods were invented to explain what was the unexplainable (astrology at the time ). The Christian God and Jesus were no different. Infact most Christian beliefs are stolen from ancient myths and astrology

I wouldnt say stolen, perhaps an exact copy with a different name, I mean if you look into the similarities of jesus and horus im sure you will be suprised.

These religious beliefs all date back to planet worship, allah was a female goddess (Allat) in Arabia - the God of venus which is represented by the 5 pointed star, one of the reasons muslims have 5 pillars of islam and prayer 5 times a day.

But a muslim will obviously tell you different :wtf:

The Bible is an adaptation of ancient astrology, surrounded by myth, rewritten several times to fit in with current morals and thought. Written as a system of control to gain power over the people.

I dont mean to offend anyone but when you look into all of this, the middle eastern crisis and the political powers of control, you will find it is all to do with drugs and money and power.

Its as simple as that.

Please do not come here talking about the vatican on some moral highground, your also talking about one of the worlds richest busineses, a business that would behead (in the name of christ) you if you were not its serving 'customer'.

Source, please.

I'd love to sit here and spend 3 hours replying to your 3,283,298,139 character post, but you're starting to bore me with saying the same old things over and over again (rephrased, mind you).

Im not asking you to respond, and clearly your only touching on about 5% of my post yet still lacking a reason to do so lol.

What are you trying to debate with me about?

YouTube - Fossil Skull Discovery Pt.1

Show us these lengths at which it goes to, to support intelligent design. I'd love to see this.

YouTube - Fossil Skull Discovery Pt.1

Well it's funny that you should make that assumption. I've never heard of "Carl Sagans: The Cosmos."

You must be 39 then.

Animals adapt to their environment...

Really?

lol

and that is essentially natural selection

So does that make japanese people more evolved than anyone else due to their serious lack of hair?

(This is an actual field of modern evolution thinking)

But it is certainly a much more viable option than intelligent design.

I didnt actually say it wasnt lol.

However, I believe the basic element of this whole thread is the validity of intelligent design...

Right... Okay...

But we know its not proven or disproven...

So what is the point in debating its 'validity' you either believe its true or you dont or you do neither (which is what I propose).

lol.

which you say you're not arguing about (even though I think it's pretty obvious you are).

Erm... Okay... So if I argue about my PC brand being better than yours... lol..

Does that mean that I wont ever ever ever ever ever ever ever buy the brand of PC you have?

What if mine breaks down?

lol

Nope, never ruled out some kind of creator

Good. Done.

Though, I see no evidence for it,

I dont know, im sure last week I saw a fairy man flying through the sky creating people.

Too bad you destroyed that possibility with arguments like "we didn't evolve from rocks."

When did I say we didnt evolve from rocks?

Infact when, have I once outright disagreed with ANY theory which has been discussed here?

:wtf:

Oh... And I said there is NO PROOF for Abogenisis (That we evolved from rocks)

There is a difference between there being no proof and it being completely irrifutably untrue... C'mon, im sure your a proponent of this type of thinking lol.

Why do I have the right to link these things? Well, I have the right to say anything I please, as I have a mouth (or hands), and it allows me to say whatever I please.

Yes of course, like I have the right to be a profoundly conservative christian, indoctrinating my children and castigating the thought of sex with severe beatings, yet myself being a regular at the local strip club.

Your free to be a complete hypocrite

Sorry, but maybe you should take your own advice and think about your own beliefs as well.

HAHA, Ive been waiting for someone to say this.

mfqr... what beliefs are you referring to?

Believing that something "just happens" doesn't mean that one does not believe that there's a reason behind it.

Get this into your head, YOU EVOLVING FROM AN APE HAS NO EVIDENCE.

I may be the biggest proponent of evolution and still agree with this.

that's why. I've thought about it - about aliens possibly starting things up here... but is there evidence of this? No, so why would I sit here and claim it to be a viable option

Get your head out of the dumb sand, what dont you understand about 'not ruling' out - or how about I put it this way with the use of an advertisement.. AXXA PP life insurance... "BECAUSE YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT THE FUTURE HOLDS".

It's possible, as anything is, but it's not something that needs to be taught in school.

Have you got the attention span of a 3 year old?

What didnt you get about me saying "I DONT WANT IT TAUGHT IN SCHOOLS">?

That "basic change" is called adaptation, I believe

And what does the word adaptions mean?

= "Provisions for gradual or incremental changes"

...why?

Well, since you have corrected someone else's spelling mistake, I will tell you that the comma you placed was incorrect.

Correction, I did not correct any spelling error.

I simply pointed out that the word did not infact even exist.

So, before you correct mine, learn how to read.

When you mention aliens, you're just supposing. Coulda been boogy men, coulda been elves, coulda been magic, coulda been ghosts. Why mention the alternatives when they offer no more proof than any religion?

Yes, well done for understanding that when I mention aliens I dont mean THAT THEY DID IT FOR SURE.

Well done! Big achievement.:thumbsup:

Read my posts again, I know it could have also been a hairy man having a shit on a toilet who created us it doesnt matter WHAT GOD OR ENTITY YOU BELIEVE DID IT

But we are talking about intelligent design not who the designer was!

The reason I mention Aliens is that there are some foolish moronic idiots that actually think EVERY single tiny thought of intelligent design will lead to religion.

And it "Coulda* been intelligent design".

*Thats also a spelling mistake - and a word that does not exist - SUE ME.

:thumbsup:

[Delta9 UK]

OK

1. We DID NOT EVOLVE FROM APES - stop repeating this junk.
We share a common ancestor, why is that so hard to understand?

2. Your YouTube videos (re: Forbidden Archaeology) are based on (twisting) old research which still makes it creationism. You need a better source. If you like I can post a list of the fuck-ups in that video, it was entertaining regardless.

3. (WRT Mfqrs Post) Supposition and Superstition are two different words - read more, post less. You didn't read what he actually wrote before flying off on one.

4. If you really believe that human footprints and dinosaur footprints have been found side-by-side then you just lost any remaining credibility. They are ALL fakes.

This is getting silly now, but I'm not about to pick your entire post apart bit by bit as I have better things to do.

[mfqr]

Im not asking you to respond, and clearly your only touching on about 5% of my post yet still lacking a reason to do so lol.

Geez, if that was 5% of your post, then you must have a hell of
a lot of time to spend typing replies, and breaking apart quotes so that you can pick apart arguments.

What are you trying to debate with me about?

Anything you say. It's not a debate, though. I won a long time ago. :thumbsup:

YouTube - Fossil Skull Discovery Pt.1

LOL, nice source... a youtube video. Well, you've convinced me. :S2:

YouTube - Fossil Skull Discovery Pt.1

:S2:

You must be 39 then.

You must be 12, troll.

Really?

lol

Yeah, I guess. Although I can't remember what that is a reply to. But yes. I will stick to whatever I said.

So does that make japanese people more evolved than anyone else due to their serious lack of hair?

Hmmm... I've seen some pretty hairy Japanese people in my day, so I'm not quite sure what you're talking about.

(This is an actual field of modern evolution thinking)

Or maybe it's creationist propaganda? Never heard of such a thing.

I didnt actually say it wasnt lol.

That sounds like a lie to me. I think your lack of punctuation shows your lack of sincerity in that statement.

But we know its not proven or disproven...

Good for it.

So what is the point in debating its 'validity' you either believe its true or you dont or you do neither (which is what I propose).

You tell me. You've been doing it longer than I have in this thread.

lol.

rofl.

Erm... Okay... So if I argue about my PC brand being better than yours... lol..

Bad comparison, troll.

Does that mean that I wont ever ever ever ever ever ever ever buy the brand of PC you have?

Bad comparison, troll.

What if mine breaks down?

lol

Then you should learn more about computers.

lol

Good. Done.

Sweet.

I dont know, im sure last week I saw a fairy man flying through the sky creating people.

Never said it wasn't possible. :thumbsup:

When did I say we didnt evolve from rocks?

Try looking back a few pages. You might find it in one of your long-winded posts.

Infact when, have I once outright disagreed with ANY theory which has been discussed here?

:wtf:

Then why are you still debating it?

Oh... And I said there is NO PROOF for Abogenisis (That we evolved from rocks)

I'll let someone else take care of that one.

There is a difference between there being no proof and it being completely irrifutably untrue... C'mon, im sure your a proponent of this type of thinking lol.

You're sure? Well, I'm sure you're a troll.

Yes of course, like I have the right to be a profoundly conservative christian, indoctrinating my children and castigating the thought of sex with severe beatings, yet myself being a regular at the local strip club.

It's up to you. However, I feel very sorry for your child.

Your free to be a complete hypocrite

Oh.

HAHA, Ive been waiting for someone to say this.

Did you think you trapped me into saying it? Obviously if you're going to imply that people should rethink their positions, you should as well. Unless you're a hypocrite. Of course, you're free to be a complete hypocrite. But I don't think people would look up to you very highly if you were.

mfqr... what beliefs are you referring to?

Whichever beliefs you hold. I was not trying to be specific.

Get this into your head, YOU EVOLVING FROM AN APE HAS NO EVIDENCE.

Good for it, I don't care .

I may be the biggest proponent of evolution and still agree with this.

And you're free to agree with whatever you wish. Just because you agree with it does not mean that anyone else needs to.

Get your head out of the dumb sand,

Dumb sand?

what dont you understand about 'not ruling' out - or how about I put it this way with the use of an advertisement.. AXXA PP life insurance... "BECAUSE YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT THE FUTURE HOLDS".

LOL, whatever, pal .

Have you got the attention span of a 3 year old?

I might . Troll.

What didnt you get about me saying "I DONT WANT IT TAUGHT IN SCHOOLS">?

I remember, you did say that it should be something to be taught in school, since it has just as much evidence as evolution, which you state is zero.

And what does the word adaptions mean?

= "Provisions for gradual or incremental changes"

...why?

Why what?

Correction, I did not correct any spelling error.

I simply pointed out that the word did not infact even exist.

So, before you correct mine, learn how to read.

Oh, sorry. The fact remains, you were being picky about someone else's typing. Therefore, I jokingly corrected your mistake. Troll.

Yes, well done for understanding that when I mention aliens I dont mean THAT THEY DID IT FOR SURE.

Well, I know for a fact that they do exist for sure. So I don't care what you meant .

[Hardcore Newbie]

I know exactly what evolution means, it is a process of development, a process in which something passes by degrees to a different stage.

Okay, now I think YOU should understand that the evolution I am talking about is on an extremely macro evolutionary basis and considering human evolution with regards to DARWINIST ORTHODOX evolution (you know, the one they teach in schools?), not just 'change'.

I mentioned this in my previous post, please read it thoroughly.

You have a lot of previous posts. You keep giving examples of how evolution should fail, even in regards to "micro" evolution.

well, I dont think it is fair to call intelligent design a superstition, you need to understand the meanings of words before you enter these debates.

I didn't, I called it a supposition. Something one "supposes". Maybe you should learn to read before you tell someone to learn the language.

Your pertaining to the belief that we "consider" intelligent design through fear and ignorance, I dont call atleast the process of giving careful thought to something to be labelled an act of ignorance and fear.

I consider an intelligent designer, not because I am scared of the wrath of this intelligent designer (it could have died many a thousand year ago) but because I am open minded enough to hold the consideration of it.

You're creating a strawman argument, I say we shouldn't consider it until it has some proof. It has nothing to do with ignorance and fear, that's reserved for religion.

Being open minded is a wonderful thing, I'll consider anything as a possibility even the Flying Spaghetti Monster. But when there is no proof for the thing I'm being open minded to, it doesn't have the same weight as things that do have proof.

What your forgetting is that there is a missing link to show the evolutionary path between ape and human, and even so, the 'proof' you have described brings up many other new theories such as co existence.

This is why I said, do not presume evolution is 100% correct, the more evidence they find the more theories they open, and a strong theory by modern scientists is co existence.

Point me to these theories of coexistence, please.

This is a very brief overview (im very tired) but may that not mar the authority of this description, this archaeologist lost her job, her research funds and her entire team was split up due to the finds. Simply because it went against the universal held 'truth' and assumption that we evolved from these ancient mammals.

Again, you really do like to borrow arguments from creationists. If you had a link to it, that'd be cool to read about, and (probably, but not certainly) laugh at.

Well it depends on your interpretation and perception of this silver like skin, I mean if I was to wrap you in foil and send you out into the sun im sure it would not be very effective.

Is this the kind of work you believe can be linked to the likes of natural selection and billions of years of evolution.

This was my point, you can percieve the skin to be a magical absorbing material which calculates perfectly the correct amount of vitamin D and sunlight for the skin to be exposed to etc, which would be more fit a suit for survival.

Or you can look at it from the foil example.

Ill give you 3.8 Billion years to think about it.

I don't think skin is magical, so you're setting up yet another straw man that's easier for you to knock down. Evolution isn't a perfect process, like cows. My internet is really screwing up tonight, so I can't actually research anything tonight with any sense of speed. So I'll go by memory and say that cows have a stomach with 4 compartments. A cows stomach is inferior to ours, we have one part that does everything for us, not 4 parts for 4 stages.

We don't always get "the best" stuff, we just get something that enables us to survive.

So humans came from apes. Right.

Sorted, forget EVERYTHING ELSE.

And this is where I start ignoring you. I specifically said "From what I've read, we have a common ancestor with apes, if that's what you mean. I think this is based on solid fact, yes"

Just because a Canadian shares an ancestor (or father) from Russia with an American, that doesn't infer that the Canadian came from America, or vice versa.

If all you're going to do is set up straw men, put them in a crop field, please.

[yokinazu]

god created man and the universe
the earth is flat
the earth is at the center of everything
we have already learned everything there is to know
and witches weigh less than ducks

[mfqr]

god created man and the universe
the earth is flat
the earth is at the center of everything
we have already learned everything there is to know
and witches weigh less than ducks

:thumbsup:

[dragonrider]

Interesting thread about common descent: http://boards.cannabis.com/spiritual...n-descent.html