Some front line views of the war against God.

[Mr. Clandestine]

Are you suggesting that the schools shouldn't teach children the real classification of birds because it might contradict a parent's teachings?

That certainly is a cute story, but no, that's not what I'm suggesting at all. I simply meant that the distinct topic of determining a factual origin of species is still up for plenty of debate. I don't want to tell my children that Darwin was wrong, because who can be 100% sure? But I'd really rather not be directly contradicted in this matter, because it would be more confusing for the child...not because it would affect my peace of mind in any way.

You're right, science is much better left out of the hands of biased scientists.

No, sir. Theology should be left out of the hands of biased scientists. Everything else that needs to be taught can stay!

I assure you that I always find it funny. Yet for some reason I always engage. probably for the humour.

I can certainly relate to the way you feel...I used to love getting online and spending hours participating in debates. I guess I'm just getting old now, because I'm usually too tired to get online and argue my point of view anymore...even when it's about a topic that really means something to me. I call it "internet indifference", others might call it "laziness"!

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I understand that the parent has rights over his children, yet the children have the right to believe whatever they please.

Even so, what if the theory in science contradicts the theory their parents teach them? How do you measure which is the correct theory to teach them? Through your humble indoctrinated opinion of Christianity?

Maybe it's just me, but I feel that it's in most parents nature to try and instill common aspects of their own belief system into their child. I already know that my children will grow up to be independent thinkers, because that's exactly how I am raising them...not to be afraid to think for themselves. My humble and indoctrinated opinion of Christianity is also just that...mine, and mine alone. I'm not forcing my children to be Christian, they already want to be a Christian on their own volition. I also wasn't indoctrinated by my parents...I discovered the religion all on my own. I considered myself an agnostic for much of my life, up until I graduated from college, which is when I made my decision. Now I attend church, and subsequently, my children do too. But I'm not forcing my beliefs on them as some overbearing Christian parents might do. Quite the opposite actually...my children enjoy what they're being taught in their Sunday school. So why stop going? Because it's impossible to know for certain whether or not there even is a God? Even though I don't have any factual evidence on the matter, I still can have faith. And I still do.

Do you really think you are enforcing the right for children to have their OWN beliefs?

Of course I am! I'm not holding a gun to their head and making them attend church! They already look forward to going. Call it indoctrination, call it ritualistic, call it a hobby...the point is, it's what they want to do. And it would actually be selfish of me to try and stop them from going...not the other way around.

Which explains why people (in this case the parent) should question their own beliefs.

I've questioned my beliefs for much of my life, as I mentioned before. Christianity is what eventually made the most sense to me, and is also what I find to be the most comfortable system of beliefs. I understand that there are inconsistencies in the religion, though. There are inconsistencies in every religion, and I would know, because I've studied many of them in great depth. But, as the meat of this entire thread will also point out, there are plenty of inconsistencies in alternative belief systems (evolution, abiogenesis, etc.), as well. I try to remain altruistic when discussing why I chose my religion over others. In fact, I once considered myself a devout Mahayana Buddhist before I let myself become indoctrinated into the Christian religion. I still retain many Buddhist values to this day...pretty much the only difference being that I'll no longer bow before any images/statues of Buddha. Besides that, I think it's a wonderful philosophy & way of living.

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Do you really feel its a viable option to remove the teaching of all knowledge on a subject, be any specific part true or false, for a bit of peace of mind?

Regarding this particular topic and the relevancy of the issues at hand for biased parents, I don't see how it could do any harm to just move on to another topic. If it's purely theoretical on both sides of the spectrum anyway, I don't see the need for it to be taught in our schools...especially when it could be misconstrued for fact by a biased science teacher. And I'm not just referring to evolutionary leaning teachers/professors here, either. It works both ways. The zealous parents (on both sides) would be able to sleep easier at night, and the children would be free to focus on more important areas of science while in class.

In the end, someone is always wrong, not implying that that someone is ID or Evolution, but there is always someone who is wrong, someone who is right. If we go about life worrying about offending those who are wrong, we will get nowhere as a civilization.

I agree with this statement wholeheartedly. Another reason why I think we could do without having to even discuss this topic, unless by random coincidence, someone were to bring it up. Then it can be discussed/debated upon with an open mind.

I personally have no doubt that anything I say will not affect anyone here. I dont think that highly of myself that my digital words would have any amount of sway or hold over others typing theirs. Hell, Id be happy and honored if half the people responding to me would actually read what I wrote before responding, not to imply any of the people in this conversation at the moment are doing that, because you arent, but you get what I am getting at.

I enjoy these kinds of things though because it is a little bit of a battle of wits, intelligence, and sometimes The Google. But I also enjoy learning about other viewpoints, even if they may not affect mine in any way, because its more knowledge that I have gained. Id hope that everyone looks at it that way in some way or another, because there isn't much of a point to any of this otherwise, because you are right, none of us are going to change the other persons mind.

I've read every single post, word for word, that you and everyone else here has made since the topic was introduced. Even after it started becoming slightly monotonous. Mainly because I, like you, enjoy learning what other people think about the matter...but also because my interest has been piqued with all of the references getting thrown around. I find everyones viewpoint intriguing on this matter, which is why I'm still hanging around!

As Chris Rock said in Dogma..

Great movie, by the way! :thumbsup:

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Ok, so I apologize if it seems that I'm trying to hijack this thread. It honestly wasn't my intention to get involved, and I'll graciously go about my business again & let everyone have fun with the rest of the debate! Just remember to keep open minds about all of the possibilities, not just the ones that you deem most factually relevant/coherent.

Peace. :hippy:

-Mr. C