Interesting Videos Involving Proving Creationism

[Hardcore Newbie]

It's a war that no one can win even with proof. If tomorrow science brought forth 100% undeniable proof that there was no such thing as intelligent design Christianity would still abound. It wouldn't phase them at all, at the most they would simply just change the religion a little bit more to fit the new evidence. Likewise, the same would apply for atheists.

Wrong. The mind of most atheists (who tend to be sceptics) is that when there's proof of something, they'll believe it. If there were actual, verifiable evidence, then there would be very few atheists. To think that an atheist is a person whose non-belief is based upon superstition, is missing the whole point of non belief in the first place.

Atheists will use science for another hundred thousand years and still not be able to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt God doesn't exist.

Which is a common logical fallacy. Anyone who falls back on this argument, isn't really even arguing at the point. If someone falls back on this for the basis of their belief, then they're belief is exactly on par with the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

How can anyone debate that which they know nothing of?

you debate any God the same way because all gods are made up. The Xian god is the same as Zeus or Thor.

[Iambreathingin]

Note: On the evoloution thing...just look at how animals adapt to their habitats. We HAVE witnessed this change. Insects who live the entire lives for generations underground lsoe their eyesight and develop greater senses that benefit their environment. There are even tribespeople in africa who have an extra bone in their spinal cord that they and they alone posses because their habitat demanded that their race geneticlly adapted inorder to survive.

Perhaps it's a waste of time seeing as the only answer I ever get is "Well actually you're wrong because any piece of evidence that might suggest a religion is wrong is clearly the work of Satan to misguide us, or God to test our faith."

*shrug*

[TryptamineScape]

Wrong. The mind of most atheists (who tend to be sceptics) is that when there's proof of something, they'll believe it. If there were actual, verifiable evidence, then there would be very few atheists. To think that an atheist is a person whose non-belief is based upon superstition, is missing the whole point of non belief in the first place.

I stand corrected, I'm sure if God came down and verified his existence to be true, I'd believe in him. You're right.

Which is a common logical fallacy. Anyone who falls back on this argument, isn't really even arguing at the point. If someone falls back on this for the basis of their belief, then they're belief is exactly on par with the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

I wasn't really arguing, I was making an example of why I choose not to argue. I've presented many a xtian with all the information I can muster and yet they still seem to think I'm going to hell for it.

you debate any God the same way because all gods are made up. The Xian god is the same as Zeus or Thor.

The followers of zeus and thor wouldn't have abandoned their posts quite so easy either. A xtian will use their Bible to defend themselves just as we would use science. I've never seen a debate where a xtian was presented with scientific proof who then backed down and decided to not be an xtian anymore. It's proved itself much more effective to me to first use the bible itself. The bible, on most occasions will deny itself. I probably know more about the Bible than I do about evolution, which is exactly why I can't believe in the Bible.

I wasn't attacking anyone in my thoughts, that was simply my opinion, not an opening statement in a debate. Had I been debating someone I would have definitely had much better structure and sound argument. I just never saw a difference in beliefs a cause for war (figuratively).

[Hardcore Newbie]

I wasn't really arguing, I was making an example of why I choose not to argue. I've presented many a xtian with all the information I can muster and yet they still seem to think I'm going to hell for it.

Sorry, I re-read my last post and I can see how it looks like I was being confrontational, which wasn't my intention.

But sometimes it's worth it, some people will realize that what they believe in doesn't make any sense. These are the people I'm looking to debate. Sure, I assume I'm right, but in all of my debates with believers, they've never given me any proof of the existence of God, and while I've never disproved it, I've shown a few people why it's futile to believe for belief's sake.

The followers of zeus and thor wouldn't have abandoned their posts quite so easy either. A xtian will use their Bible to defend themselves just as we would use science.

That's the thing, just because they aren't easily swayed, just because they are concrete in their beliefs, that doesn't mean they're right.

I used to think if I were a believer, and someone presented me with the argument "You're using the Bible to defend the Bible, circular logic" that I'd pipe back with "You're using science to defend science, same thing!"... but it doesn't work like that.

Science works by collecting data and observing, and being able to test, retest, and test again. Basically, it works on evidence. It's all available to the public. If someone doesn't believe the theory of gravity, any person can be taken step by step on the reasoning and correlating evidence behind the theory. Religion can't claim anything near this.

I've never seen a debate where a xtian was presented with scientific proof who then backed down and decided to not be an xtian anymore. It's proved itself much more effective to me to first use the bible itself. The bible, on most occasions will deny itself. I probably know more about the Bible than I do about evolution, which is exactly why I can't believe in the Bible.

But personally, I see this as a problem. The Bible itself tells you that if one part isn't true, disregard the whole thing. When a part of the Bible is proven untrue, they move the goalposts. "oh, that story is not literal, look at the meaning behind it". At that moment, anyone that uses this line of thinking is basically admitting that the whole Bible could be made up. They don't want to think that, of course, so they themselves will arbitrarily decide which parts of the Bible are true and which are "just stories".

The Bible itself makes no distinction on which stories are made up and which ones are real. I just keep asking question as to where they draw the distinction and why? Basically getting them to admit that they could be wrong about where they're drawing the line, showing them where I've drawn the line (all fake). While I don't get everyone to change, I've seen quite a few people go on by saying that while what they belief might not be rational, they still do. In this case, you are stuck in the debate, because who can debate irrationality? no one.

[TryptamineScape]

Sorry, I re-read my last post and I can see how it looks like I was being confrontational, which wasn't my intention.

It's fine, I didn't think you were being too confrontational anyway.

That's the thing, just because they aren't easily swayed, just because they are concrete in their beliefs, that doesn't mean they're right.

Exactly. I believe that I am right in my beliefs...but realize that I could be wrong at the same time.

The Bible itself makes no distinction on which stories are made up and which ones are real. I just keep asking question as to where they draw the distinction and why? Basically getting them to admit that they could be wrong about where they're drawing the line, showing them where I've drawn the line (all fake). While I don't get everyone to change, I've seen quite a few people go on by saying that while what they belief might not be rational, they still do. In this case, you are stuck in the debate, because who can debate irrationality? no one.

That was my original point. You can't debate irrationality. Also, I think different people will draw that line in completely different places. Xtians tend to debate xtians just as much if not more than they debate atheists. I simply draw the line at the beginning. I feel that if you have to make a distinction between which parts are real and which parts are fake based simply on what you decide, then the whole thing is probably worthless.

[Hardcore Newbie]

Exactly. I believe that I am right in my beliefs...but realize that I could be wrong at the same time.

The fact that you admit you could be wrong shows that you're open minded.

That was my original point. You can't debate irrationality. Also, I think different people will draw that line in completely different places. Xtians tend to debate xtians just as much if not more than they debate atheists. I simply draw the line at the beginning. I feel that if you have to make a distinction between which parts are real and which parts are fake based simply on what you decide, then the whole thing is probably worthless.

I think the debate is won when you get someone to admit that they're being irrational. Whereas if you don't get this admission from them, you're basically on the same level as them, in respect to having valid arguments. Telling someone that they're being irrational is one thing, getting them to admit it is the part where you've shown them that you have every right to disregard their nonsense.

[TryptamineScape]

very true...very true...

[rocktheganj]

i don't really worry about religion or where we came from... its kinda like nobody'll ever know for sure, we should just be grateful for being here, and live it up. as for religion in general, it's never done the world any good.... so far it's just been an excuse for war and killing.


but i strongly disbelieve in christianity and the bible because they're so "elite" and if you don't agree with them then you go to hell. even if you're a really good person.

[snowblind]

hi, i just want to apologise for cominga cross agressive in my tone. but i just get anoid by the way that creationists mock evolution theories, but get very defensive when we mock their 'faith'

to anyone who is jewish, christian, muslim or any other religon. i have no problem with you. i know its the typical thing, such as with rascism when someone says your racist and they reply no i have black friends. but i have friends of all faith. i don't descriminate friendship on the basis of what someone believes.

everyone can believe what they like and im sure not everyone agrees with me. but i sent that email to that lad because his 'evidence' isn't evidence. he is, as with most evangalists simply a very good spin doctor.

anyway he replied to my email, with sound logic. if you believe that life is black or white. god or no god.

but his final evidence was a video from ken hovind

check this out if you dont know who he is

Kent Hovind - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

anyway her is his reply to my email, completely negating all of my points. i cant send my reply as i sent it and cant get it till he sends me another reply.

peace

WHERE DOES YOUR GOD COME FROM ? -you

Firstly, you have 2 choices; either everything came from nothing (which is impossible), or something always existed and created us. You have no other choice. Take a moment to think about that.

This thing that always existed would be considered Eternal, having transcended time, space, and matter, being everlasting, having always existed. If you argue this is impossible, I would argue the contrary; it is impossible for this Eternal 'thing' to not exist, because the alternative is that nothing existed, which could only produce nothing. So, something always existed, and is therefor Eternal.

Now, for something to be Eternal, it can not consist of time, because time must have had a beginning. We exist in a universe of causality, so an infinite regress is impossible; there could not have been an infinite amount of time before right now, because we never would have reached this moment in time. That means time had a beginning, and whatever created time exists without time, beyond time, in timelessness; Eternity.

So, this Eternal Creator, created time, and the universe. This Eternal Creator cleary is extremely powerful, because the energy of the trillions of stars in the known universe were created by this Creator. And obviously, the Creator is extremely intelligent, having created an intelligent being such as mankind and a world in which to populate with it.

FreeHovind - Watching Video: The Age of the Earth


Watch the first video called the Age of the Earth

[snowblind]

then i sent this

wow, thankyou for sending me that video. ill admit i didn't watch it before i replied. but in the spirit of having an open mind i thought i would.

then to my surprise, to my horror, to my sheer sheer amusement it was a seminar by ken hovind.

i thankyou i really do.

this man embodies everything about why you believe the convictions you do.

have you looked up his wiki

heres the website

http://uk.youtube.com/my_messages?fo...ilter=messages

if there ever was a person who discredits, disproves and stands to rock the foundations of your beliefs it is this man.

he has no accredited education

he is currently serving time on felonies regarding tax evasion

he basically used the bible to tap into peoples wallets for his own gain.

surely that is the sin of greed.

anymore 'evidence'

peace and progress