Imagine....a New America!

[mfqr]

it's not the concept of liberalism that i attack, it's the asinine socialist gibberish of the nouveau-left that i find impossible to tolerate. the notion that we should entrust our well-being to the tender mercies of the state is foolhardy at best. in a true democracy it might be a viable alternative, but true democracy is nothing more than a utopian dream. all of those freedoms you hold so dear would be negotiable if the state were given that kind of control.

look to the socialist style institutions that are already in place if you need a few examples of government run amok. welfare systems throughout the country are riddled with fraud and ineptitude, the public school system is a joke that retards the progress of the gifted and rewards mediocrity, social security is an ill-planned pyramid scheme that is crumbling before our very eyes. every time the government steps in to level the playing field we end up with an unwieldy bureaucracy and corruption from one end to the other. this is what the new left has come to represent, the fettering of genius for the sake of the mediocre.

true liberal ideology embraces freedom and change for the betterment of the society. i was born a liberal, i was a communist before i left grade school and i've struggled against the reactionary policies of the uncaring institutional machines wherever i found them. it's sad to see the labels i proudly endured corrupted by those whose aim is merely the latest face of totalitarianism. if you wish to be fooled by their propaganda and believe that they just want to save you from yourself, go ahead and stumble blindly into your cage. that new world order that has you all so scared is not just some neo-con plot, it is and always has been the ultimate goal of all those in power. liberal or conservative, their desired end is the same - control over ever aspect of your life.

I see, then I misunderstood your post previous to this one, because I didn't know where exactly you stood. I have to agree with you completely, because you are indeed correct on this issue (as I see it). And no, I don't believe they want to save me from myself. Scared of the NWO? The concept is certainly frightening, but it is most likely not what it seems... as not everything is as it seems. I do believe that there is a group trying to set the NWO in place, to rule every aspect of everyone's life. History only shows this as a great possibility. There has always been someone trying to rule the world.

It is a utopian dream, but what has ever started without a dream? :thumbsup:

[delusionsofNORMALity]

It is a utopian dream, but what has ever started without a dream?

dreams are all quite nice, but reality tends to step up and slap one in the face with rather unpleasant regularity. human nature is all that keeps the dreams from coming true, but what good is utopia without anyone to enjoy it. frustrating, isn't it?

[Anubis10012007]

no i won't and neither will anyone else. your dream is of a dying nation, stripped of incentive and all alone in the world. it's more of a bucolic third world nightmare steeped in socialist rhetoric and welfare state hypocrisy.




....and where are my reparations? my ancestors were slaughtered and enslaved by the armies of rome, but i don't see anyone petitioning italy on my behalf. the only folks that believe such reparations are viable are lazy fools who believe you can get something for nothing and ivory tower liberal dolts consumed by their pathetic white middle-class guilt.

ouch. Well here is the difference. Slavery was still going on after the Constitution was ratified. The same constitution that was ratified in the 18th century is still the supreme document of the land. This is why I FEEL that reparations should handed out because this was in my book, recent. 200 years is not a long time really.

[delusionsofNORMALity]

ouch. Well here is the difference. Slavery was still going on after the Constitution was ratified. The same constitution that was ratified in the 18th century is still the supreme document of the land. This is why I FEEL that reparations should handed out because this was in my book, recent. 200 years is not a long time really.

even if we go by your guidelines, who pays? i suppose the simple answer is "the government". the problem is that the government doesn't magically make money appear, it comes from the people. now i don't know about you, but my family emigrated far too late to get in on the slave owning craze. should we only penalize those whose families owned slaves? maybe we should go after the descendants of arab slave traders or the great great great great grandchildren of those who sold their enemies into slavery as a result of inter-tribal warfare. before you go handing out money you must first lay blame and that blame is spread out across the globe.

no, that whole "sins of the fathers visited upon the sons" shtick is a bit too biblical, don't you think? different eras give rise to different atrocities and today's business as usual may be tomorrow's great evil. the present gives us enough to make up for without being forced to atone for the mistakes of the past.

[andruejaysin]

Reparations are total bullshit. Every group in America was a minority at some point and was abused. Irish, Catholics, Protestants, African Americans, etc...

I agree with that for the most part, though I would make an exception for native americans. The entire county was stolen from them and most of them exteriminated. Had hitler managed to send everyone in poland to the gas chambers would he have then been the rightful ruler of poland? At how about reperations for the millions of victims of the drug war? Unlike slaves, who after 150 years have decendents who's ancestry include slaves, slave owners, free blacks, indians, people who emmigrated long after the civil war, drug prisoners can offer a very specific list of damages from the brutal repression. Seems like I remember the term "pursuit of happiness" from somewhere. But like most of what we hear from the government, it's all a dirty lie.

[HighTillIDie]

i would only see a limited time tax break for hard evidence money crimes to reparations... and i think a person more than 1/16th documented native american should not pay taxes...

i don't care how bs... i don't think we can give the cheated tribes enough... we murdered nations and entire civilizations... but i think spain should as well... ect ect

but this is really all dreaming... the best way for america to pay, or any nation that has been guilty of great hate crimes, or genocide is through living a just way... we should punish ourselves by chasting our government, and our peoples power... it should be a sign that the moral majority can be easily swayed into justifying horrible acts, and that means each and everyone one of us, maybe guilty, but blinded by pride.